we’ve found that the published gear ratios aren’t always exact (they round them)
short of opening the gearbox and counting (which is what we did for the main two
motors), try the calculated value and it’s probably going to be ‘close enough’.
what you can do is set things in firmware, then take the motor off the machine
put a mark (such s a tape flag) on the shaft, note where it is and tell it to
move the Z axis some large multiple of 1/8", like say 80" (100 revolutions) and
when it finishes, see if the mark ends up at exactly the same place or not. If
not, some number isn’t exact and you can tweak it until it is exact.
Thanks David! And that Calc should be with the x7 as well right that Madrizzle mentions? So like the 4200? Wow 500 emails! god Bless you guys and thank you for helping us
I’m not sure where the x7 comes from. The original motor was something like 7
pulses/rev. I’d try the 600 figure first.
If it’s wrong, then telling it to move 1" will only move a little over one
revolution, it will be obvious.
at the height of spam, I started thinking about automating spam handling when I
got >300 spam messages a day, out of the 2000+ e-mails, below that it just
wasn’t worth risking the false positives
David, this is fantastic information, thank you so much! Making note of everything you all have said. Will try the number, and see how she goes! Tomorrow I will give it a test once I find the setting to cut on the outside of the line. Pretty sure as Orob (I believe) said, that is why my cut is 3 7/8 not 4. Then we will see how attempt 4 looks. I think this time may have some much better luck! Thank you all, your the best! Learned a ton tonight!!
Wow that is crazy, and a lot of emails! Spam no good, I hate spam! Loads up the inbox and takes away from the folks like me who really need and appreciate all the help!! Will do the 600 first…sorry I did not see that post before I sent my last reply on using the larger number. I have a friend w/ 2 major pre-existing conditions that I check on each night after the wife goes to sleep. Just to make sure he is in a good place, safe, and has someone to talk to each day during the C-19…at least until he gets the vaccine. So each nite I have to step away for an hour or so, and I reply to you all via the email…sometimes I miss a post or 2 until I get home. I will try the 600, thank you!! Also, NICE use of the false positives, totally caught that one
The good news, we are expanding the vaccine to more states…and we have made signing up for it, and the second dose (if Moderna or Phizer) very easy. if you want the vaccine, and the J&J is available, please take it! All, despite the lower number you all see on the J&J, will 100% keep you out of hospital, and 100% keep you from dying. Don’t listen to thing things you read online or paper, ALL are 100% safe and 100% get us out of this thing with no visits to hospital or worse death. Moderna second shot may get you a little sick, but nothing any of you all that had flu cannot handle. 1 day, tops. That’s my little gift of info to you all for helping me and Anthony out so much
Also if you want it sooner, find the organizations in your state that offer free shots in poorer communities. There WILL be sites there setup with trucks to try and get folks to take vaccine. If you go around 2:30 pm, park in the lot…find them on facebook and sign up for town texts from a mayor. nurses will take 100 doses a piece, that is about what they administer each on a given day. Towards end of day, usually they have extra and will start finding people walking on the street to administer to. That is usually when a mayor or facebook post will come through from a nurse at the site…saying we have extra…that is when you can hop in the line with your car. No age restrictions at that point. Be in the lot though so you beat the locals who will race for vaccine. the nurses will get desperate as once open, viles taken out of storage or cracked open (12 shots a vile), they will find anyone over 16 yrs old to give it to…and do. So lets you jump ahead if you want it. You can delete all this if you want after, but for you 4 that have been helping me so much…if you want vaccine sooner rather than later to maybe have a nice summer, my gift of info to you Now who I work for, you all know (it’s one of the 2 major pharmacies that owns my company) who we are, we are not part of what I mentioned above to get sooner…although we are expanding to more states…but that is another way to get even quicker if you want it outside of us.
I have tried to find this “cut on the line” or “cut on the outside of the line” in Estlcam, for the life of me cannot find anything resembling a feature like that. My test run in Estlcam, “looks” to be cutting on the outside, but then again 3 7/8 inch square is NOT the designed 4, and not acceptable. Do any of you know where I would find a setting like this in Estlcam to see what it is set as? One of you mentioned this may be the issue on the size of the part, and I absolutely agree it makes sense…just cannot find it!! Anything you can offer will help tremendously, I think this is the final piece of this big puzzle for me. thanks!!
first select the region to cut, then look at the three lines just to the right of the menu that says engraving. The top one cuts ON the line, the second one cuts to the left and the third one cuts to the right. depending on the direction of your cut, this will matter. If you are unsure, select them until it looks right.
this:
This is great David, thanks for that idea. I think purchased a second Z axis motor to use on the meticulous Z setup. Maybe I will connect this up and try the test great idea thank you!
Orob, this is great!! The missing info I think to finally get her running today!!! Thank you so much, I was only looking in the settings and what not. I never checked this engraving button as I never considered what I was cutting as “engraving”… Now I know :). Thanks so much!!! I will check this out in a few once workshop heats up a bit.
Hi Orob, I used the “part” to generate all the code…Is that maybe something I should stay away from, rather use “engrave” each time? I realized just now in changing it on the test piece saved late last night, it put a path OVER what was set (which I bet is why it tried cutting 2 squares at one point as I keep tweeking the original estlcam project!..I am going to start from scratch, but would you advise to use engraving even if not really engraving something with the special bit? Also, I noticed that with engraving the path is clockwise, not counter clockwise with the “part” path where it is supposed to cut the outside of shape. Is it ok to run maslow clockwise like that with a straight 2 flute bit? Asking as is there another setting to click before I run engraving function? Although I am used to using a tracing router bit with bearing which requires you to run the outside, counterclockwise. Since Maslow is more like running freehand with router, maybe it should be clockwise? … Right, as in theory it’s an inside cut, never on edge of work surface. Thanks for your reply in advance!
Those are great questions. I cannot claim expert status to give well versed answers perhaps someone with more experience could help here. My intent is to help you see some options and get you going. I found with the “part” option, the lines had to be entirely enclosed and the engrave option allowed freedom to do I wanted, so I just used it. If it is cutting backwards and causing edge fraying, that would be a good item to address. Thanks for sharing your insight on this.
This is great info, and thank you Orob. I am going to stay away from the “part”, and go with “engrave” as now I know it’s all you use…and it works! So just to know, when you cut then, your router moves clockwise and no issues right? The more I thought about while waiting for reply, makes sense to run “clockwise” when free cutting something inside a board. If you were free hand cut a circle, imagine after plunging trying run opposite the bit spin…it would be next to impossible to move smoothly…and you are right, it would be all jagged at best, probably frayed edges too. Holding on tight to handles, you have control (smooth) to cut clockwise with a hand router. This is the way to go for sure, thank you so much going to make a new estlcam square and some gcode, and heading down to test now. Thanks again!!
Also, I noticed that with engraving the path is clockwise, not counter clockwise with the “part” path where it is supposed to cut the outside of shape. Is it ok to run maslow clockwise like that with a straight 2 flute bit?
I believe what you are referring to is climb milling vs. conventional milling. In general there are specific appliations for each type of milling operation to use depending on what you are trying to cut. When hand routing something with a follower bearing then one would typicaly use the conventional milling method because the forces involved will keep the bearing pressed up against the workpiece. When plunge cutting (cutting with material on three sides of the bit) the bit is actualy cuttng on 270 degrees of the bit so the forces involved are more balanced. That actualy presents a problem sometimes becasue without guidance the router is more likely to have a tendency to shoot off in the direction of least resistance. In CNC, this isnt necessarily an issue. I typicaly make all of my cuts using conventional milling and dont see any issues with the router bouncing or drifting off.
What this looks like in practice is a counterclockwise cutting direction when cutting the outside edge of something and clockwise when cutting the inside edge of something. Which mimmicks the motions that would be reuired when hand routing edgework.
Jon, this is a great explanation, and thank you for this! I did notice that “conventional milling” and why I was asking maybe another button. I did not see how it would change, but got me thinking about milling directions. This is what I was referring to, the wood on all sides versus outside…especially the taking off of the router in path of least (right, why we hold on and slowly move when hand routing). So what you are saying, in the CNC maslow world, direction does not matter…which is what I needed to hear, so thank you Everything is balanced, it is safe. That is not the case when hand routing with a bearing on the outside “tracing” arcade panel pieces, and why I always run in counterclockwise. It’s rare I would cut inside the side panel, and the control panel area I did by hand with templates and forstner bit for the buttons. Limited in the free hand, although have done it…why so used to counterclockwise. This is great info, thank you as well!! Hopefully this new piece I am working on (I want to start fresh, as I think maybe by accident overlaying toolpath in estlecam based on that code I sent a few days ago) cuts properly. I think we have the Z axis depth issue figured out, it is safe to cut any direction…I will make sure to use “engrave” and not “part”…and see I have success Thank all, will let you know how goes!!
So what you are saying, in the CNC maslow world, direction does not matter…
Direction does matter, but its more an issue determined by what and how you are cutting. Material that is prone to rapid tearout prefers climb milling. Plastics come to mind. Things like acrylic or polycarbonate will tear out, chip or even shatter if you try to use conventional milling but will cut well with climb milling becasue the bit is cutting “into” the material and not “away” from it. Also remember, with Malsow that we are not taking full depth cuts, we are only taking very small, multi-depth cuts. This greatly reduces the tendency of the router to drift because the forces that cause it are greatly reduced. They are still there, just much smaller than what you are probably thinking.
Everything is balanced, it is safe.
With most conventional CNC machines, the router or spindle is rigidly heald in place by a fixed gantry that does a far beter job at controlling router position than even the strongest of human controlling it freehand. The Maslow is not a gantry machine in that the only forces holding the router in position is gravity and the combined forces of the two motors. However, since the Maslow is limited in it’s feed rate (20-30 ipm), can really only handle a max z-dpth of .125" to 150" at a time, and has spindle speeds down around the 10K RPM area, not a whole lot of forces get created that seek to want to force the router off its path that the Maslow can’t handle. I’ve only had problems with router drift when I’ve tried to push the feed rate or depth beyond what maslow can handle.
Jon, what a fantastic explanation!! This all makes sense to me now that you put it this way. The small cuts too, of course DUH greatly reduces that tendency to jump off the board and take off. I need to think about this as I DO plan on trying to cut plexi for the marquee and maybe control panel overlays. I do that by hand, it is VERY tedious and easy to blowout a piece of rather expensive material. So when I do cut anything other than 3/4 inch ply, I can change that in the settings from conventional to climb. Does this change direction of the cut, just curious if the end of the day that is what it means in estlcam? Thanks for all this, fantastic info!
Also, you mentioned gantry…funny you say that. I did design a frame where you drop maslow to the flat, and if had the gantry setup with rails…in theory I bet could cut faster on the flat…or raise back up to all our setups, and cut with gravity. I am no engineer, but if anyone was interested, I think it maybe could work I drew it out in a sketch if anyone wanted to see what I mean. So it is my wall mount, same work area drops to the flat, like a table, and the rails and gantry could do their thing with no gravity. Drop in the meticulous Z…you probably see where going with this if peaks anyone’s interest. You are the experts, not me It is just a design, but I think pretty cool as space saving when not in use, run traditional maslow, or want to go full bore speed drop her to table mode and go. Obviously need gantry and rails setup, not sure how the chains would come into play…maybe 4 motors, 4 chains if do not use a traditional rail and gantry setup.
I think you may be able to use the garage door functionality to make make it light to pull down the current maslow work area to table mode, all things we could get at home depot on the cheap. Again, I think others are more engineer oriented officially than myself, but I have thought through it
