# Circles out of round **URL:** \ **Category:** Troubleshooting\ **Created:** [May 10, 2019, 12:49am UTC](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/circles-out-of-round/9809 "2019-05-10T00:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![metras3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@metras3](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/u/metras3)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 12:49am UTC](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/circles-out-of-round/9809/1 "2019-05-10T00:49:40Z")
![Dial_Ring_IMG_3841](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/uploads/maslowcnc/original/2X/d/de1e196775b089beafb324205f612c8ff4733b9a.jpeg) ![Dial_RIng_IMG_3839](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/uploads/maslowcnc/original/2X/7/74521f7b52bd14bf550e7e15400492ffc4969be9.jpeg) For some reason my parts are about 0.100” out of round. (around 2.5 mm) I am cutting this out for a 1 x 4 x ¾” thick pine board. (around 25 x 10 x 20 mm) I tried cutting it with the grain going the other way, same problems. I thought it might be a calibration issue. The cut is after re-calibrating and with a new tool bit. I am using Ground Control version 1.26 What is it that I do not understand? Marty ---
**Author:** ![TheMerryYeoman](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/forums.maslowcnc.com/themerryyeoman/32/8009_2.png) [@TheMerryYeoman](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/u/TheMerryYeoman)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 3:14am UTC](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/circles-out-of-round/9809/2 "2019-05-10T03:14:12Z")
There are many that know things about calibration that I don’t. Since round had always been out for me and measurements never matched what was on CAM I just figured I would try to understand if it was a ratio (%) or specific distance out ( in both directions). My plan is to compensate with math with my own fine adjustment calibration. Hey, I understand it which makes a difference. Hope we both learn something here that prevents us from getting these results in the first place! 🏹 ---
**Author:** ![dlang](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/forums.maslowcnc.com/dlang/32/859_2.png) [@dlang](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/u/dlang)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 3:32am UTC](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/circles-out-of-round/9809/3 "2019-05-10T03:32:47Z")
unfortunantly the error is not that simple. There is a simulator that lets you show what different errors look like, play around with it and you will see that different errors result in different distoritions of the resulting cuts. David Lang ---
**Author:** ![jwolter](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/forums.maslowcnc.com/jwolter/32/30787_2.png) [@jwolter](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/u/jwolter)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 11:16am UTC](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/circles-out-of-round/9809/4 "2019-05-10T11:16:50Z")
Where on the workspace you are cutting will also affect the errors you see. In particular, the errors tend to be worse at the top center and lower corners. The following links may or may not be useful: > [@What must be adjusted to correct out of round circles](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/what-must-be-adjusted-to-correct-out-of-round-circles/3162): > > Have run several circle tests, and they are slightly out of round… In the center towards the top, 6" wide x 5 7/8 " high In the center towards the bottom, 6" wide x 5 15/16" high 30" either side the error narrows to 6" wide x 5 31/32" high What measurement errors cause this problem? FWIW, I used the machine to measure top beam length, and the result was 3004.57… used this for the temp sled calibration. When I calibrated using the new sled, I used a steel rule to measure the distance between… > [@Accuracy Issues](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/accuracy-issues/5855): > > Definition and the Calibration Model It’s important to make sure you use the correct language when describing your issues and the definitions of accuracy and precision are often confused. Accuracy is how close a measured value is to a desired value. You want to cut a 12-inch square and you get an 11-inch square, you accuracy is poor. Precision is how close multiple measured values are. You want to cut a 12-inch square and do so in 5 passes around the plywood and each cut perfectly overlaps t… > [@List of sources of error](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/list-of-sources-of-error/7523): > > I was explaining the issues we are fighting with for accuracy to someone and started enumerating all the potential sources of error. I thought it would be good to go through them all and list how they are (or are not) being addressed as of the beginning of Nov 2018. This assumes that the chains, sprockets, chain slack are all kept in the same plane so that there is no error from the chain attempting to skip or the efforts to prevent it from skipping. This is assuming triangular kinematics (usi… ---
**Author:** ![metras3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@metras3](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/u/metras3)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 4:29pm UTC](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/circles-out-of-round/9809/5 "2019-05-10T16:29:33Z")
After reading dlang’s post,“List of sources of errors”, I see some things that may be causing me some of my problems. It looks like it may be the chain sag. I am cutting these circles on the left side of the work space. I will try cutting squares and circles on all four corners and in the middle after I go over the re-calibration again. I will look for flex it the motor mount beam too. (2 x4’s don’t bend, do they? Yes, they do! ) 'dlang’s posted list had things I did not think up on my own. Thanks for your help! Marty ---
**Author:** ![metras3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@metras3](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/u/metras3)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2019, 12:16am UTC](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/circles-out-of-round/9809/6 "2019-05-11T00:16:19Z")
Since I made the last post I thought I should check the length of the chain first. I mean the left length against the right chain. Over the full length of the changes it is off a half a link. I laid the two chain aside each other and it was very easy to see. I stretched both of them and it was true, one is longer than the other. After making sure they were tight I verified this. Then I did the same from the other end. The first 3 feet or so they looked the to match, Then with each few inched you could see the miss match starting and at the end it was off about 1/2 a link. I reversed one chain and looked again. I was thinking if the matched up the other way I could use them just be careful to install them that way. Well the two chains are not the same! How do I get a match set of chain? Or is there a work around? Marty ---
**Author:** ![dlang](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/forums.maslowcnc.com/dlang/32/859_2.png) [@dlang](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/u/dlang)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2019, 1:01am UTC](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/circles-out-of-round/9809/7 "2019-05-11T01:01:42Z")
the best way is probably to just buy new chain, but there is a chain tolerance value for left and right chains that are an attempt to address this. the question is if the longer chain is consistantly longer, or if it’s longer in some areas than others (which we do not handle) this value is set as part of the holey calibration step, but could be worked out manually. I would suggest trying the holey version or wait a little bit for it to get fully integrated in the mainline version. David Lang ---
**Author:** ![metras3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@metras3](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/u/metras3)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 1:29am UTC](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/circles-out-of-round/9809/8 "2019-05-14T01:29:08Z")
You say to do the “holey calibration” I don’t understand this. Meaning I have see this and I I will try it but where do I find this procedure. Marty ---
**Author:** ![TheMerryYeoman](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/forums.maslowcnc.com/themerryyeoman/32/8009_2.png) [@TheMerryYeoman](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/u/TheMerryYeoman)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 10:48pm UTC](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/circles-out-of-round/9809/9 "2019-05-14T22:48:48Z")
@metras3 , > [@Holey Triangular Calibration](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/holey-triangular-calibration/6240): > > I’m starting this thread to document the Holey Triangular Calibration development process. This process is different than the current process as it determines the exact (as exact as possible) coordinates of each “cut” location. The current process only considers the distance between two cuts at the top, two cuts at the bottom, and between the top of the work area and a cut near the top. It is based upon the assumption that the cuts are perfectly centered. The holey process measures the dista… 😀 ---
**Author:** ![metras3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@metras3](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/u/metras3)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 3:11pm UTC](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/circles-out-of-round/9809/10 "2019-05-16T15:11:10Z")
I will look into the Holey Triangular Calibration via the link you provided. I was looking for an easier way. Well easier for me. Is there an adjustment I cam make to the code or parameters where I could use the trial & error to get closer than 0.075 out of round. After re-calibrating this time I shaved 0.025" closer. to make round circles. This is kind of what I am working for: [http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/DRAWINGS/clock2.svg](http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/DRAWINGS/clock2.svg) First I need to make circles. Marty ---
**Author:** ![dlang](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/forums.maslowcnc.com/dlang/32/859_2.png) [@dlang](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/u/dlang)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 6:44pm UTC](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/circles-out-of-round/9809/11 "2019-05-16T18:44:21Z")
there is a thread I created, something line ‘sources of error’ that lists all the possible error sources. There is also a simulator buried somewhere in GC that lets you introduce error to many different items and see what the resulting cuts would look like but with this style of machine, there’s no X or Y value that you can tweak. If you cut the circle in the center, it will be off differently then if you cut it elsewhere on the sheet. David Lang ---
**Author:** ![metras3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@metras3](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/u/metras3)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 12:49pm UTC](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/circles-out-of-round/9809/12 "2019-05-17T12:49:23Z")
David, It looks to me at this point that I have to deal with chain slag,stretching, and the router must be in align with the ring the chain hooks to on the sled. Cutting squares in the four corners measure correct. Meaning left to right and up and down in the center. Maybe I have to use the trail and error system more that I have been. I just cut a new sled and at 18" left to right and 17-11/16 up and down, 1.7%. At 2-5/16 it was off 0.100"., 4.3% I checking to old sled for being aligned to center. I will look at your “List of sources of error” and see what I can do to improve things. Thanks for you input. Marty ---
**Author:** ![Joshua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/48db29/32.png) [@Joshua](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/u/Joshua)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 7:06pm UTC](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/circles-out-of-round/9809/13 "2019-05-17T19:06:55Z")
I would recommend going through the Holey Calibration process. It is somewhat well documented, and the Holey Calibration software hasn’t had any problems that the main software has not.