# Maslow 4 - moves in unexpected direction when jogging & unspools belts **URL:** \ **Category:** Troubleshooting\ **Created:** [June 7, 2024, 4:27pm UTC](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/maslow-4-moves-in-unexpected-direction-when-jogging-unspools-belts/21419 "2024-06-07T16:27:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![willpuckett](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/forums.maslowcnc.com/willpuckett/32/22652_2.png) [@willpuckett](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/u/willpuckett)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2024, 5:36am UTC](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/maslow-4-moves-in-unexpected-direction-when-jogging-unspools-belts/21419/21 "2024-09-15T05:36:51Z")
Hi David, I got the following calibration results after my last run: ```auto Maslow_tlX: -3.600000 Maslow_tlY: 990.500000 Maslow_trX: 1734.900024 Maslow_trY: 994.000000 Maslow_blX: 0.000000 Maslow_blY: 0.000000 Maslow_brX: 1737.300049 Maslow_brY: 0.000000 Maslow_tlZ: 100.000000 Maslow_trZ: 56.000000 Maslow_blZ: 34.000000 Maslow_brZ: 78.000000 ``` My manual measurements were: ```auto Width: 1745mm Height: 975mm ``` The router is lowered until it skips steps before calibration. If I try to jog in the Z axis after calibration with belts tensioned, it spools out excessive belt during the Z move. The anchors are installed on the same plane as the maslow sled moves on. ---
**Author:** ![dlang](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/forums.maslowcnc.com/dlang/32/859_2.png) [@dlang](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/u/dlang)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2024, 7:45am UTC](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/maslow-4-moves-in-unexpected-direction-when-jogging-unspools-belts/21419/22 "2024-09-15T07:45:20Z")
Will Puckett wrote: > Maslow\_tlZ: 100.000000 > Maslow\_trZ: 56.000000 > Maslow\_blZ: 34.000000 > Maslow\_brZ: 78.000000 these are an issue, see below > My manual measurements were: > > ```auto > Width: 1745mm > Height: 975mm > > ``` small frame > The router is lowered until it skips steps before calibration. If I try to jog in the Z axis after calibration with belts tensioned, it spools out excessive belt during the Z move. > > The anchors are installed on the same plane as the maslow sled moves on. The standard Z offset settings assume that you have a 3/4" spoilboard and a 3/4" workpiece, so they are ~1.5" (~38mm) higher than they should be in your case where the anchors are on the same plane as your sled. when you jog the Z axis, it is extending the belts so that they still reach the anchors, but if the Z size of the triangle is shorter than it thinks it is, too much belt will be extended. it looks like you have modified them from the default, but you may want to do a check. David Lang ---
**Author:** ![willpuckett](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/forums.maslowcnc.com/willpuckett/32/22652_2.png) [@willpuckett](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/u/willpuckett)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2024, 3:02pm UTC](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/maslow-4-moves-in-unexpected-direction-when-jogging-unspools-belts/21419/23 "2024-09-15T15:02:35Z")
Thanks for helping navigate this, David. I haven’t modified them from the default. Checking the maslow.yaml I downloaded from the most recent release yesterday morning, it has: ```auto # Z axis values # These define the height of the anchor points in relation to each of the arms. You do not need to change these typically Maslow_tlZ: 100 Maslow_trZ: 56 Maslow_blZ: 34 Maslow_brZ: 78 ``` For clarity, if I were to attempt to measure the Z-offsets, I’m imagining I should measure from belt bottom/center/top at the anchor to belt bottom/center/top at the arm on the maslow? I’m using @Dan_Bunby 's [3d printed anchor points](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/3d-printed-anchor-point/20113), which do add a small amount of additional height above the board. They are mounted to the top of the spoil board. Anecdotally, I did initially install the maslow on a much larger frame on the floor, with the anchors set below the spoil board, but still had issues. Additionally, I do anticipate working with materials of varying z-heights, ranging from 1.5mm to standard 1/2 plywood. Do I need to anticipate recalibrating when I change materials? Do these issues “go away” in a vertical mount? Thanks again for your help unraveling this. As mentioned previously, I can be rather daft and may very well have missed a glaring document outlining ‘typical’ z-height setup… ---
**Author:** ![jkleban](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/47e85d/32.png) [@jkleban](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/u/jkleban)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2024, 8:51pm UTC](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/maslow-4-moves-in-unexpected-direction-when-jogging-unspools-belts/21419/24 "2024-09-15T20:51:23Z")
> [@dlang](#): > > The standard Z offset settings assume that you have a 3/4" spoilboard and a 3/4" > workpiece, so they are ~1.5" (~38mm) higher than they should be in your case > where the anchors are on the same plane as your sled. I have been running my own calibrations on a surface without the intended spoilboard or workpiece. The calibration runs fine but then the belts get loose on jogging I think as described here. Can I expect nearly perfect results if I add the thickness back in? Is there something I can do in the settings to indicate the zero or non-zero thicknesses to account for this and make it optimal? It seems that the calibration can adapt to the situation. Why can’t the jog mode? ---
**Author:** ![dlang](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/forums.maslowcnc.com/dlang/32/859_2.png) [@dlang](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/u/dlang)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 2:44am UTC](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/maslow-4-moves-in-unexpected-direction-when-jogging-unspools-belts/21419/25 "2024-09-16T02:44:45Z")
Will Puckett wrote: > Thanks for helping navigate this, David. > > I haven’t modified them from the default. Checking the maslow.yaml I downloaded from the most recent release yesterday morning, it has: > > ```auto > # Z axis values > # These define the height of the anchor points in relation to each of the arms. You do not need to change these typically > Maslow_tlZ: 100 > Maslow_trZ: 56 > Maslow_blZ: 34 > Maslow_brZ: 78 > > ``` > > For clarity, if I were to attempt to measure the Z-offsets, I’m imagining I should measure from belt bottom/center/top at the anchor to belt bottom/center/top at the arm on the maslow? yes > I’m using @Dan_Bunby 's [3d printed anchor points](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/3d-printed-anchor-point/20113), which do add a small amount of additional height above the board. They are mounted to the top of the spoil board. > > Anecdotally, I did initially install the maslow on a much larger frame on the floor, with the anchors set below the spoil board, but still had issues. > > Additionally, I do anticipate working with materials of varying z-heights, ranging from 1.5mm to standard 1/2 plywood. Do I need to anticipate recalibrating when I change materials? not for differences that small > Do these issues “go away” in a vertical mount? no > Thanks again for your help unraveling this. As mentioned previously, I can be rather daft and may very well have missed a glaring document outlining ‘typical’ z-height setup… it’s a topic not well covered. David Lang ---
**Author:** ![dlang](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/forums.maslowcnc.com/dlang/32/859_2.png) [@dlang](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/u/dlang)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 2:49am UTC](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/maslow-4-moves-in-unexpected-direction-when-jogging-unspools-belts/21419/26 "2024-09-16T02:49:27Z")
Jason wrote: > I have been running my own calibrations on a surface without the intended spoilboard or workpiece. The calibration runs fine but then the belts get loose on jogging I think as described here. > > Can I expect nearly perfect results if I add the thickness back in? Is there something I can do in the settings to indicate the zero or non-zero thicknesses to account for this and make it optimal? > > It seems that the calibration can adapt to the situation. Why can’t the jog mode? The problem is that if the Z offsets are incorrect when you do calibration, the caluclated anchor positions are going to be wrong. The calibration will still move around and pull the belts tight at each point, but since the calculations produce incorrect anchor locations, when you go to jog, the calculated belt lengths will be incorrect and you will have incorrect belt lengths (leading to loose or too tight belts) since you are dealing with triangles, where the belt length is the long side of the triangle, and the Z offset is the short side of the triangle, if it’s off just a little bit on a large frame, it’s not going to result in a large error. But as the frame gets smaller, and as the Z offset gets more incorrect, the calculated locations differ more from reality. David Lang ---
**Author:** ![jkleban](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/47e85d/32.png) [@jkleban](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/u/jkleban)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 12:11pm UTC](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/maslow-4-moves-in-unexpected-direction-when-jogging-unspools-belts/21419/27 "2024-09-16T12:11:15Z")
Would it make sense to add parameters for “Spoil Board Thickness” and “Workpiece Thickness” prominently in the UI so that the software could adjust the z-offsets for the situation? Intuitively, that seems like a trivial fix, no? (I’m just here coming to understand that the z-offset in some discussions isn’t referring to the route bit depth z-axis control.) Otherwise we’re going into the config here and adjusting them - is a calibration expected after changes to z-offsets? I haven’t touched mine, but they don’t match what the tooltip says are the “normal” values. Did these get calculated during calibration? ![image](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/uploads/maslowcnc/original/3X/c/7/c7b514d397369a900b768b350713a2406b5f8447.png) ---
**Author:** ![dlang](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/forums.maslowcnc.com/dlang/32/859_2.png) [@dlang](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/u/dlang)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 12:55pm UTC](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/maslow-4-moves-in-unexpected-direction-when-jogging-unspools-belts/21419/28 "2024-09-16T12:55:58Z")
Jason wrote: > Would it make sense to add parameters for “Spoil Board Thickness” and “Workpiece Thickness” prominently in the UI so that the software could adjust the z-offsets for the situation? Intuitively, that seems like a trivial fix, no? > > (I’m just here coming to understand that the z-offset in some discussions isn’t referring to the route bit depth z-axis control.) > > Otherwise we’re going into the config here and adjusting them - is a calibration expected after changes to z-offsets? I haven’t touched mine, but they don’t match what the tooltip says are the “normal” values. Did these get calculated during calibration? normally, you would set the z offsets to match your frame before you do the calibration. If you are using a normalish frame where the anchors are at the depth of the back of the wasteboard, and you are say 1-2 inches for wasteboard and workpiece. there is nothing to do. changing from a 3/4" workpiece to a 1/2" workpiece on a frame designed for a 4x8’ workpiece is not expected to need changes for example. this is an area that has not been extensively tested, and a lot of people are sucessfully using the maslow without worrying about it. But if you are having problems, or the accuracy is not good enough, and have checked other things, it’s an area to double check (especially if you have a non-standard frame size or anchors) David Lang ---
**Author:** ![bar](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/forums.maslowcnc.com/bar/32/10_2.png) [@bar](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/u/bar)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 6:58pm UTC](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/maslow-4-moves-in-unexpected-direction-when-jogging-unspools-belts/21419/29 "2024-09-16T18:58:55Z")
> [@willpuckett](#): > > Trying to run a gcode file usually results in a position error exceeding 15mm. I think that this could just be an encoder connection issue. The only time that the 15mm error has really come up for me is when an encoder connection is the cause of the issue. ---
**Author:** ![jkleban](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/47e85d/32.png) [@jkleban](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/u/jkleban)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 12:47pm UTC](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/maslow-4-moves-in-unexpected-direction-when-jogging-unspools-belts/21419/30 "2024-09-19T12:47:27Z")
@anna when you’re testing smaller frames, are you seeing a crucial difference of having spoilboard and stand-in workpiece vs not regarding post-calibration jogging unspooling, please? ---
**Author:** ![anna](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/forums.maslowcnc.com/anna/32/22688_2.png) [@anna](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/u/anna)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 4:05pm UTC](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/maslow-4-moves-in-unexpected-direction-when-jogging-unspools-belts/21419/31 "2024-09-19T16:05:50Z")
I haven’t done much testing with the smaller frame in general. But I haven’t noticed a difference for just the spoil board vs spoil board+workpiece. I have not run it without the spoil board at all. I can set up the smaller frame and see if I can replicate it next week. I have seen the unspooling error right after start up once or twice, but I cant seem to make it happen regularly. I just hit the emergency stop and do a restart. ---
**Author:** ![MrN808](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/forums.maslowcnc.com/mrn808/32/22275_2.png) [@MrN808](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/u/MrN808)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 6:32pm UTC](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/maslow-4-moves-in-unexpected-direction-when-jogging-unspools-belts/21419/32 "2024-09-19T18:32:25Z")
After failing to make my M4 work on a scenic design project over the summer—just about all of it due to various errors I made—I had to put it on the back burner for a while. This week, I’m starting a new scenic design project, so I set the M4 up backstage, got a good calibration immediately (Yay!), then made a few missteps. Last night, after one full day and three long evenings, I finally sorted everything out, and after a dry run, started a test cut, only to have the M4 cut the air above the stock, and not the stock at all. It was the end of my time in the theater, so I went home and sometime between when I left and when I woke up this morning, I had an epiphany: the origin in the Manufacture environment of Fusion must be set to the top of the stock, and not the bottom. Oops! This afternoon, I’ll try the test cut again. I bet this time it works. Mahalo for all the support! ---
**Author:** ![Andith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Andith](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/u/Andith)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 6:55pm UTC](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/maslow-4-moves-in-unexpected-direction-when-jogging-unspools-belts/21419/33 "2024-09-19T18:55:11Z")
I feel you. It seems like every time that I start a new project, I make at very least one dumb mistake that makes me want to bury my face in my hands. The biggest thing is trying not to make the same dumb mistake twice (regardless, I do that too at times). Keep at it, and things will hopefully go smoother and smoother each time! Looking forward to seeing what you make! ---
**Author:** ![MrN808](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/forums.maslowcnc.com/mrn808/32/22275_2.png) [@MrN808](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/u/MrN808)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 7:08pm UTC](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/maslow-4-moves-in-unexpected-direction-when-jogging-unspools-belts/21419/34 "2024-09-19T19:08:50Z")
This is the project that was supposed to make ample use of my M4 - we ended up doing the curves and such by hand, and it was a pain and not as precise as it could have been, but we got it done. Once our set is complete, I’ll take pics of the pieces cut on the M4 and post them. ![IMG_5630.HEIC](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/uploads/maslowcnc/original/3X/8/7/8775948cb17c3276762d0db5f22f835d7e808758.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![dlang](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/forums.maslowcnc.com/dlang/32/859_2.png) [@dlang](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/u/dlang)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 7:19pm UTC](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/maslow-4-moves-in-unexpected-direction-when-jogging-unspools-belts/21419/35 "2024-09-19T19:19:06Z")
Andith wrote: > The biggest thing is trying not to make the same dumb mistake twice focus on ‘twice in a row’ and you will eventually eliminate them 🙂 David Lang ---
**Author:** ![Andith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Andith](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/u/Andith)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 8:57pm UTC](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/maslow-4-moves-in-unexpected-direction-when-jogging-unspools-belts/21419/36 "2024-09-19T20:57:51Z")
Looks great regardless! Set design always sounded really fun to me, though I’ve never tried it. ---
**Author:** ![MrN808](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/forums.maslowcnc.com/mrn808/32/22275_2.png) [@MrN808](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/u/MrN808)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 11:16pm UTC](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/maslow-4-moves-in-unexpected-direction-when-jogging-unspools-belts/21419/37 "2024-09-19T23:16:28Z")
It’s finicky work…not in terms of precision per se, but in terms of what considerations need to be…well, considered. - Budget - Stock scenery (reuse to make budget) - sightlines - lighting - safety - usability - aesthetic I’m a multimodal theatre artist, so I think about scenic design as an actor, as director, and as an audience member (with awareness of sightlines and lighting/shadows). It’s very rewarding, but as I’m not a professional—in my career I teach English—it’s always about knocking off the rust and remembering what _this_ task is. ---
**Author:** ![willpuckett](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/forums.maslowcnc.com/willpuckett/32/22652_2.png) [@willpuckett](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/u/willpuckett)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2024, 8:09pm UTC](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/maslow-4-moves-in-unexpected-direction-when-jogging-unspools-belts/21419/38 "2024-10-05T20:09:40Z")
I was able to calibrate after making the Z adjustments and run the maslow logo gcode in a dry run (no bit). But when I put the bit, I got the position error again. Was able to order the new encoders and mcu this week and looking forward to trying everything with them in place. @bar really appreciate the discount code in the email I know the costs of producing everything can really add up!!! ---
**Author:** ![willpuckett](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/forums.maslowcnc.com/willpuckett/32/22652_2.png) [@willpuckett](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/u/willpuckett)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2024, 10:41pm UTC](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/maslow-4-moves-in-unexpected-direction-when-jogging-unspools-belts/21419/39 "2024-12-04T22:41:02Z")
Should calibration be run on the spoil board only or with a piece of material on top of the spoil board? I’ve been using the spoil board only since it seems to be pictured that way in the calibration instructions… ---
**Author:** ![dlang](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/forums.maslowcnc.com/dlang/32/859_2.png) [@dlang](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/u/dlang)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2024, 11:10pm UTC](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/maslow-4-moves-in-unexpected-direction-when-jogging-unspools-belts/21419/40 "2024-12-04T23:10:24Z")
Will Puckett wrote: > Should calibration be run on the spoil board only or with a piece of material > on top of the spoil board? I’ve been using the spoil board only since it seems > to be pictured that way in the calibration instructions… it should be run at your common cutting height, so with the material in place. (or you can adjust the Z offset values to be correct in any case) David Lang [Previous page](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/maslow-4-moves-in-unexpected-direction-when-jogging-unspools-belts/21419.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/maslow-4-moves-in-unexpected-direction-when-jogging-unspools-belts/21419.md?page=3)