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🌞 New Stock Frame Design 🌞


#803

yes, figure 14 uses unistrut brackets and short pieces of unistrut to make the top beam adjustable (and easier to mount in the process)


#804

But the section it’s in is related to how to install the wood arms… not unistrut brackets.


#805

Toenail a screw into it from the front to hold it down. I’m good at screwing things at an angle… especially when my goal is to do it straight.


#806

as I see it, it’s just above the section on wood arms, in the section of
unistrut (or did I manage to put it in two places?


#807

In your post with the images embedded into the instructions, the last image is Figure 14 but should be Figure 13, I believe. You have Figure 14 twice in that post.


#808

ahh, I see that. I’ll fix it when I’m at home tonight


#809

as far as the number of screws go, I tend to think in terms of nice symmetrical patterns and like doing 4 screws.

but if you are gluing things, the glue is the primary force holding things together in the long run, and the screws are clamps to hold things in place while the glue dries.

If you look at the test that @madgrizzle did a few hundred posts back, he ended up using three screws nicely spaced. I would generally always do two screws, just so things can’t twist while the glue is wet (and acting as a lubricant between parts)

my estimate of 90 screws was 4 on each joint attaching to a flat face, and 2 on each joint connecting to an edge


#810

I’m going to throw this out there and I feel like chicken little, I think I’m about to be run down. I love glue joints, however this adds 24hrs to the build per joint. If you start putting stress on the joint before it dries, why use glue at all? Yes you could us CA(super glue) but this is the wrong application for that. Did you know Super Glue was developed for human skin? The fact it works on other stuff was an accident.

Glue joints should be glued and set aside for 24 hours before putting pressure on them.

I don’t think most people want to wait days to play.

My 2 cents

Thank you


#811

I haven’t looked at the new design or instructions closely at all, but I imagine it could be built in sub-assemblies that would allow a few glue joints to be setting at a time. Also, with screws locating and clamping the “layups”, many of the joints will be quite forgiving of being moved around. Likely not being put into service right away, but secure enough to allow assembly to progress for much of the frame.

Some test builds and a solid procedure will show that it won’t be as long of a process as the number of glued joints may lead you to believe. Of course that will need to be proved out, but I have faith that it will be reasonable.


#812

I don’t think most people want to wait days to play.

I agree.

Glue joints should be glued and set aside for 24 hours before putting pressure on them.

ideally, but it’s very common to assemble multiple glue joints at once (or in a
short time) and not have every set dry before doing the next step.

We are in a situation where either glue or screws should be enough and the
combination is rock solid.

If I was being conservative, I would do:

  1. all the assembly of each leg (steps 1-5)
  2. all the crossmembers (steps 6-10)
  3. stand it up and do the top braces
  4. finally attach the top beam

being a bit less conservative, I would be pretty comfortable doing everything
except the top beam in one shot.

I wouldn’t start running it before letting the glue dry, but moving it around to
assemble it, while it’s held pretty solidy with screws, doesn’t seem like it is
too bad

I’m going to throw this out there and I feel like chicken little, I think I’m about to be run down.

hopefully not too badly.

I love glue joints, however this adds 24hrs to the build per joint. If you
start putting stress on the joint before it dries, why use glue at all?

the screws are strong enough to hold things together, so it could be done
without glue, but adding glue is easy and turns an ‘acceptable’ screwed joint
into a ‘rock solid’ glue+screw joint.

David Lang


#813

I think we should go all screws. My design has 9 currently and would be ready to cut if I had another Maslow kit. There is a problem with glue - too varied. I would advise “Maslow” to stay away from shipping glue, look out for the pun, it gets sticky. But really it can cause shipments to get held up and inspected. Then how do you get everyone on the same glue page, I didn’t have wood glue, how about white school glue. I have done some kit things in the past and stay away from shipping chemicals. The headaches that it can lead to aren’t worth it. If glue were a necessity I wouldn’t be typing this. It simply isn’t needed and makes things more complicated in space that has gotten overly complicated already.

again this is my 2 cents

Thank you


#814

Please do, it seems like we are getting very close to a final design. We are at the point where having people try and follow the instructions (to see how different what they get is from what I intended) would be a valuable thing to do.


#815

I think the design as-is will work pretty well with just screws. I think using glue is a good idea and will be a noticeable improvement to the stability and longevity of the resulting machine.

But I don’t think the machine will fail without glue (unless you manage to split your wood with the screws)

I agree that shipping glue is a bad idea, I don’t think anyone is suggesting that. Anyplace you can buy lumber you can get a small container of pretty decent wood glue.

I’m happy with the glue being a recommendation, not a requirement, but I don’t think we should be silent and not suggest it.


#816

I did. :slight_smile:

For step #4 (pivoting screw for the legs) I feel it would be worth mentioning that the pivot screws on each leg should be reasonably accurately located so the frame angles are the same. Otherwise the frame may end up distorted.

Beyond that, the only other thing that had me a bit confused at first was the use of components as spacers to line everything up. It’s very smart, but it took me a few looks at the drawings to get the idea of what’s going on. Maybe the parts being used as spacers and construction aids should be shaded a bit to identify their use as tools. Enough to identify them, but not so much that they would cause issues if someone chose to print the drawings out in greyscale. I only have a black and white laser printer and I would like to have printed drawings handy for building the frame - and scribbling on.

It’s excellent work.


#817

I’m sure it’s been discussed I pre drill almost everything. The stardrive deck screws are the exception, they are engineered to “just work”. My design can probably save 6-8 minutes out of the 60 minute build buying a $8 box of screws.

agreed it shouldn’t , not be discussed ( yea double negative )

Perhaps something like " while not a requirement, the kit isn’t shipped with glue, however glue can increase the strength and longevity of some joints. Please see the section on gluing if you indent to use your own wood glue. "

Thank you


#818

I built mine with the star screws and drilled all of the holes on just the screw side. I used 2 screws on the end grain and 4 screws in a square pattern when screwing the 2x4 side. I think that my frame is more than strong enough and I haven’t screwed my 4’x8’ sheet down yet.

I bet that if your frame was not all that sturdy by the time you screw a 1/2" or 3/4" sheet of plywood on it you would not have any trouble with it.


#819

@marm

May I quote you?

Thank you


#820

Sure no problem with that.


#821

I am going to use unistrut to make the top beam adjustable and found these angle brackets and plan on using them, will need two per side but I think that the will work. The nice thing about these is the sides are not the same size so the bolts or lag screws will not interfere with each other, and I got them out of the scrap pile at work fro free;)
image


#822

good point.
Steps 4 and 5 are interesting. I was half tempted to delay attaching the legs, stand the frame up on the kickers, and attach the legs to the kickers and the front legs in the same step. That would be close enough to the correct angle. to work well.

if you make the bottoms of the legs flush, and then pivot, it works really well, except the front corner of the rear leg gets in the way

if the rear leg was slightly offset to the rear, it would be ideal, but how do we specify how much?

Thanks, @madgrizzle has been taking my images and coloring them (and adding the step instructions, along with letters to each piece), but things have been in flux so he only did the first couple

take a look at post 724 🌞 New Stock Frame Design 🌞 for an example