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The Meticulous Z-Axis


#121

That’s pretty much the stock weight.


#122

Interesting, I had thought the smaller hoses would be more ideal for the smaller dust chute, but obviously it needs more airflow than that. I will have to upgrade my own dust collection, as I’m still using a Home Depot Bucket Head shop vac. It has a tiny little 1 1/4" hose that has worked well enough with the original sled. I will probably spend some money on a proper dust collector, or follow Matthias Wandel’s footsteps and just make my own.

It’s like the ISS’s cupola, but for a Maslow! :smiley: That was one of the big design considerations for the dust hood, because I felt like I couldn’t see what was going on at the bit very well with the router base on the sled. I figured it will be much easier to mount a webcam or go-pro or something to the sled so I can have a good camera angle right up at the bit.

The little nubbins (yes, that’s the technical term) at the front of the clamp that the bolts go through could be shortened a bit and that could help. Also, since you’re 3D printing the clamps, you could pretty easily make a new one similar to the machined aluminum ones you see on aliexpress and the other usual suspects. A good example might be the one that comes in this spindle kit.

When I get some time, I will probably draw one of those up for myself anyway. I like that idea so much better than the plywood one I drew originally.

I know they’re currently re-evaluating how they want to move forward selling machines, so I’m not sure how this would fit into their plans. We’ll talk more about selling kits later, I want to prove this design a bit more before getting into kits and such.

Thanks! I didn’t think I was going to get as warm a reception for this as I did, given I just had a model and not a physical one. I would still like to test the plywood-only version at some point. If I’m lucky, I might get some time to cut my parts this weekend, but I’ve been saying that for awhile now… >.>

Ouch! That’s not a good time. Maybe we should implement soft limit switches to keep that from happening? I know the updated design has hard-stops before the carriage collides with anything, but the old design didn’t have that feature.


#123

Blockquote
Ouch! That’s not a good time. Maybe we should implement soft limit switches to keep that from happening? I know the updated design has hard-stops before the carriage collides with anything, but the old design didn’t have that feature.

With the 2200 router, the button to lock the spindle extends out such that if you don’t take that into account, it will push through the Plexiglas window. Obviously breaking it. I believe that was touched on earlier in the post. I was going the cut a hole in the window to allow the button to pass through giving me a little more travel distance or, as I am doing now, just extending the bit so the router does not need to travel down too far. Limit switches are nice but wouldn’t we have to do more programming and such? I have never used limit switches so I don’t know much about them other than what they are supposed to do.

Blockquote
The little nubbins (yes, that’s the technical term) at the front of the clamp that the bolts go through could be shortened a bit and that could help. Also, since you’re 3D printing the clamps, you could pretty easily make a new one similar to the machined aluminum ones you see on aliexpress and the other usual suspects. A good example might be the one that comes in this spindle kit.

When I get some time, I will probably draw one of those up for myself anyway. I like that idea so much better than the plywood one I drew originally.

I like that spindle. My only complaint about using routers is that they are VERY LOUD! If these spindles are quiet, I would consider them.
When I made the 3D printed clamp, I just copied yours. Being plastic, it probably does not need to be so thick either. If you want the .stl file, I would be glad to share it, although the one you referenced might be much better.

Blockquote
Thanks! I didn’t think I was going to get as warm a reception for this as I did, given I just had a model and not a physical one. I would still like to test the plywood-only version at some point. If I’m lucky, I might get some time to cut my parts this weekend, but I’ve been saying that for awhile now… >.>

Wait…are you saying I’m the first to actually build and use this design? I thought you had this on your Maslow? Maybe I misunderstood.


#124

That’s a good idea. I might update the plexi window to have a cut-out for that button. I’ve modeled that part of the spindle anyways, mind as well put it to good use.

I have very little experience with them myself. There are a couple of them on the Prusa I’m building, and if I’m remembering correctly there’s a boolean value in the firmware to enable them. I haven’t gotten to the firmware step yet, though, so I could be wrong.

It’s under-powered compared to the Rigid, but I’ve seen people on this forum use them on their machines so I’m sure it’s fine. I’m planning on getting a spindle around the 2.5kw range myself. Any purpose-built CNC spindle will be an improvement over the Rigid, though, as they’re made for more continuous use than a hand-held router. Often, the also have much less run-out.

Yeah, luckily, Fusion makes it pretty easy to make STL files from parts. Those clamps were specifically designed around plywood, though, and some improvements could be made to the design to hold the spindle better with a 3D printed part.

Yup, achievement unlocked! You’re our guinea pig! xD I just only got my Maslow running again yesterday after a several month long hiatus. Ever since March I’ve been packing and renovating the new home and haven’t had any time to cut anything with my machine. I’m hoping I will get a some time this weekend to cut my parts, but usually something comes up. If nothing else, I’ll be officially unemployed next Friday, so I will have more time then.


#125

Sounds way too big for 1/4" bits at 40ipm (6.35mm at 1m/min). I’d guess that an 800 watter would be plenty; the lower the minimum usable speed the better.

Over on cnczone.com there’s a lot of discussion about spindles vs routers, and various types of VFD controlled ones (not the little DC brushed motors). Interestingly, ger21 (iirc) has had good results with air cooled instead of water cooled. Some years back the air cooled models were garbage, today they’re reportedly pretty darn good.


#126

I was thinking of getting an air-cooled one, much simpler to not have the water-cooled system attached to the sled in some manner.

My thinking with the spindle wattage was simply just for overkill. I would like to change over to the 3/8" diameter, 1/2" shank cutter with the replaceable inserts like the one in this thread for my primary tool. I would like to try to do full-depth cuts with that, or at least 2 passes on 3/4". That’s where my thoughts on using a more powerful spindle came from. Looking over my notes, however, I have a 1.5 kw (2 hp) and a 4.5 kw (6 hp) spindle, so I’m not sure where I got 2.5 kw. Of those options, the 1.5 kw seams more reasonable, as it has the same power as the Rigid R2200. The 4.5 kw spindle definitely seems like overkill, although I like that it uses ER32 collets, whereas the smaller spindle uses only ER11.


#127

What’s the advantage to using a spindle over a router if its the same power? How does it allow you to do full-depth or 2-pass cuts? (I’m asking because I’m interested)


#128

The advantage of spindles is that they a purpose-built for CNC. This means they last longer under long-duration cutting, and tend to have less run-out than a hand-held router would.

@Bar has tested the Maslow doing full-depth cuts using the Rigid and it is possible. Here is the video from the MaslowCNC YouTube channel of him testing it.

The primary issue is not the router or the X-Y motors, but the tooling. In a production environment, I do not like plunging a bit more than 2x it’s diameter. I have done up to 3x before, but had issues with resonance and bits breaking. That is the main the reason for changing my primary cutting tool from a 1/4’ single flute bit to a 3/8" single flute bit.


#129

I have very little experience with them myself. There are a couple of them on the Prusa I’m building, and if I’m remembering correctly there’s a boolean value in the firmware to enable them. I haven’t gotten to the firmware step yet, though, so I could be wrong.

I believe that the maslow firmware already supports Z axis limit switches, you
just need to figure out how to mount them.

It’s under-powered compared to the Rigid, but I’ve seen people on this forum
use them on their machines so I’m sure it’s fine. I’m planning on getting a
spindle around the 2.5kw range myself. Any purpose-built CNC spindle will be
an improvement over the Rigid, though, as they’re made for more continuous use
than a hand-held router. Often, the also have much less run-out.

the rigid router gets MUCH quieter when you slow it down (which we need to do
anyway)


#130

At Makerfaire I brought a few single-flute bits, and we found that the single
flute straight 1/4" bit was MUCH quieter than the standard 2-flute he had been
using.

We also tried a 5/8" single flute bit cutting 3/4" deep (through the workpiece
and most of the backer board) cutting at max speed, and while it sounded
horrible, it actually cut well. It left real chips (which built up in the cut)
instead of generating dust.

unfortunantly I didn’t think to get videos of it.


#131

Do we know where the setting in the firmware is to enable them? I just took a quick look through the firmware but there’s so much to it now that it’s like looking for a needle in a haystack. I would love to make that a part of the new sled design. I could probably come up with a decent mounting system either with a plywood part or (preferably) a 3D printed one.

This is very true. The R2200 running at 20,000 rpm is significantly louder than it running at 12,000 rpm (which is around where I run it for the 1/4" bit I usually use)

Yes, the 1/4" single flute bits are my go-to right now for most of my machining. They are much quieter than their two-flute counterparts.

Did it sound like it was being overloaded? Or is it just that since the tool diameter is so much bigger than the 1/4" that they need higher feedrates? It’s a pity that you didn’t get any video, I would have loved to see that.


#132

The firmware does not have a provision for z-axis limit switches.


#133

It sounded very choppy (and much louder than the 1/4" bit), and I was expecting
the resulting cut to be very rough but was very surprised to see that it was at
least as good as wha tthe 1/4" bit was producing.

I left Bar a large diameter bit (I think it was the 5/8, but I don’t remember
for sure) so that he could do some more experimentation with it.

David Lang


#134

wait wait wait…I don’t need to have the router at full speed? I thought if you slowed it down, the chances were greater to burn the bit??

Also, where did you get the single flute bits that you like? I would like to try them. I thought that the more flutes, the smoother and faster the cut.

I learn sooooooooooooo much here!!!


#135

It’s actually the opposite. The faster the bit is spinning over the ideal chipload, the more the flutes are rubbing against the work-surface and generating friction. This often overheats the tool and dulls the edges, but in extreme circumstances, can ignite the dust.

Life pro tip, keep a fire extinguisher on hand while cutting. It’s rare for a fire to start, but not unheard of.

I have a few of these guys I like to keep stocked in my tooling drawer. They’re very cost-effective as far as tooling goes. My only gripe with them is that the flute length is only 1/4". I prefer to have bits with a flute length that is greater than the thickness of the material being cut, so I can do a single, full-depth finish pass to clean up the stepping that otherwise shows up in the cut edges. That’s actually main reason #2 that I want to switch over the the single flute bits with the replaceable carbide. Reason #3 is that they are significantly cheaper in the long term (I believe I did out the math in the thread I linked above in post 125).

The more flutes on a bit, the faster it can travel since each flute can remove chips. A single-flute bit removes about half as much material as a two flute bit does in a single rotation. This means that with a two flute bit you need feed at a higher rate than you need to with a single bit. This has the advantage of faster cycle times on gantry-style machines that can move at 20,000 mm/min. On the Maslow, our maximum feedrate is 800 mm/min, and this is determined by the limitations of our hardware and the firmware’s lack of acceleration planning. As a result, single flute bits can operate at their preferred feed rate whereas two-flute bits will be moving too slowly. You can audibly tell when a bit is running below it’s required feed rate because it screams like a banshee. When a bit is at it’s optimum feed rate, you can only really hear the noise of it cutting.

For more information on the math behind feed rates, please refer to the first post in this thread I started, Increasing the Max Feedrate?, which oddly enough is the “Top Post” on my profile page.


#136

I got my feedrate set to 600 and yes, it is screaming! I will turn it down to 12000 and save my eardrums.

Other than ordering these at the Maslow store, I cannot find single flute 1/4" bits/end mills for cutting 3/4" plywood. Interesting!


#137

I have these two bookmarked but I haven’t actually bought them:

1/4" single-flute Downshear

1/4" single-flute Upshear

They’re actually O-flute bits, which means they’re designed for plastic, but they will work on plywood as well.


#138

try them.

I just searched for single flute router bit on Amazon and found a bunch of Fluke
ones (with a nice 1/2" shaft)

David Lang


#139

here’s an example:

https://www.amazon.com/Freud-Double-Flute-Straight-12-100/dp/B00004T7CE/ref=sr_1_8?

This is what we put on Bar’s machine at Makerfaire


#140

correction

https://www.amazon.com/Freud-Single-Flute-Straight-11-152/dp/B00004T7C4/ref=sr_1_27?


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