OK....it's time

[TheMadcapWoodwright]

Quick snapshot:

30 year, Cabinet making veteran. New to CNC. I have known about Maslow for a while now. Big Fan

Laid off last week, now on fire to restart my cabinet / furniture business asap to get revenue coming back in..

I’m contemplating a machine for my one car garage sized, one man shop.

I need it to do the sheet goods grunt work, and having 4x8 capacity is game changer for me.

I realize cut times are way slower than say a Shapeoko or Hass, or Weekie CNC machines, but the extended cut times allow for me to do other tasks. So I’m planning to use the Maslow as a force multiplier.

Questions:

I’m planning to use Maslow Vertically. I hope folks are still finding this doable and accurate?

I have been doing some reading here, and am mildly flummoxed regarding the amount of space I’ll need to set aside for the 4x8 cutting capacity. Obviously 4x8 at a minimum. Most vertical frames I’m seeing look to be approx 10x8. Has this size been settled on as being “best practices?” Is 15-20 degrees still commonly used as default angle for the vertically aligned Maslow?

How about software? Is anyone using Carbide Create as their CAD/CAM?

I’m hoping to be using the Maslow mostly to cut accurate cabinet parts . I’ll for sure branch off into other projects with it, once my CNC chops start to develop. But for now, I’m needing to get up and running as soon as I can. Placing an order for a 4.1 kit soon after my last check from my former employer clears.

[bar]

Welcome! Thanks for the enthusiasm!

I generally try to steer folks away from Maslow for production / cabinet work. It’s not really designed to be used that way.

The issue isn’t really speed, Maslow is now as fast or faster than most of those machines, but it’s still very much a DIY robotics project and for production work you probably want something that just works every time.

That being said Maslow is super cheap and if you are looking for a way to mess around with CNC at the lowest possible price we can’t be beat there.

Our goal isn’t really to compete with something like ShopBot that is designed to be used that way, our goal is to offer something dramatically cheaper and more accessible to everyone.

@TheMadcapWoodwright

Is anyone using Carbide Create as their CAD/CAM?

I used to use it and loved it. I’ve been switching away and developing a free CAD/CAM option, but I had not complaints about carbide create

[AzaB2C]

Welcome @TheMadcapWoodwright !

@TheMadcapWoodwright

using the Maslow mostly to cut accurate cabinet parts .

What precision and accuracy do you need for your cabinet parts? I don’t know what Maslow cut accuracy and precision are for a 4’ x 8’ sheet. But would be good to know so your expectations are informed for a great build experience, and great operating experience.

Personally like this image I copied from another forum:

[dlang]

The maslow has historically been a how accuracy high precision machine, with the maslow 4 we are hoping that that improves, but we are still struggling with reliably finding the anchor locations, and with bad enough anchor locations it isn’t going to be precise.

The one nice thing about a high precision, low accuracy machine is that when you are doing the same thing many times, you can compensate for the errors in your design

But the bigger problem with trying to build a business around the maslow is the machine durability, it’s plastic against plastic movement, and that is not going to last long term. Now, it may last long enough to boostrap your businsess (one maslow 1 I purchased was from an architect firm, they used it, wore it out, and then upgraded to a machine that cost >$10k because they then knew exactly how valuable it would be to them)

As an inexpensive way to test your workflow, you could do far worse than a maslow, but don’t put yourself in a position that if the maslow gives you grief, it will backrupt your business.

[AzaB2C]

@dlang

but we are still struggling with reliably finding the anchor locations,

Spit balling… Could optional vision based calibration assist web page help (e.g. javascript opencv, uses the phone’s Camera and CPU)?

[dlang]

Aza’s Built to Code wrote:

@dlang

but we are still struggling with reliably finding the anchor locations,

Spit balling… Could optional vision based calibration assist web page help (e.g. javascript opencv, uses the phone’s Camera and CPU)?

not really, the problem with vision based calibration is what do you use as a
reference.

The author of WebControl tried to go this route with a camera in the router
collet referencing a grid. His biggest problem was getting an accurate grid. He
found that going to people who print banners and having them print the grid
resulted in a printout that was distorted significantly along the long axis

We have some ideas on how to proceed with this, but are not there yet.

see the discussions in

Discovery on moving calibration grid

I asked grok to convert the javascript program into a esp32 C function on the thought that this is SO much faster than the prior version, that we may be able to eliminate the back and forth to the browser and do everything on the esp32 I have not looked into the resulting code, and some adaptation will be needed to save the results in the right place. but here it is if someone wants to look into that (all 386 lines) calibrator_esp32_fragment.cpp (13.8 KB) In the meantime, I’m working on a PR…

Intersting insight into anchor point math

That is a very good visualisation of what I was trying to say! I’d imagine that if you plot that movement for one of the other point’s belt lengths, then where the two arcs overlap would be the fitness Maxima… It’s interesting that in a round about way you’ve arrived at a sampling algorithm - you’re doing a simplified grid sampling rather than picking random points in the space, but still it is a sampling algorithm!

it turns out there has been some interesting work in the industry and academic
research on managing cable-driven robots and calibrating them. Ways that are
both faster and that better estimate accuracy than the current proccess (and may
even be able to figure out the Z offsets rather than us having to enter them)

Daivd Lang

[TimS]

@TheMadcapWoodwright

How about software? Is anyone using Carbide Create as their CAD/CAM?

I’m still using it. V6 is free and kicks out gcode the machine can use. There is a download link on the forums, found with a quick search.

[TheMadcapWoodwright]

Thanks Bar,

Lol…I am sorry for raising your concern.

I think what I’m looking for is a “force multiplier” for my shop. I’m a one man shop, In a one car garage. So the volume would be right in the Maslow wheel house, for a while at least. Long enough to help me get set up for more sophisticated equipment. Should last a year or three, right?

[DavidR8]

Did you decide to go for it @TheMadcapWoodwright?
I have a job where I need to cut a large number of cabinet doors. I have a track saw and a table saw but I’d like the Maslow to rough out the shapes so I could cut to size on the table saw.

[dlang]

the maslow would be a slow tool to use for that (far slower than the table saw
or track saw)

where the maslow would shine (after some tuning, some of the machine, some of
yur CAD), would be to use it to cut all the holes in the right place (including
possible holes for guide pins used to align the track saw exactly right)

David Lang

[DavidR8]

Thank you for your response @dlang

[Madcapwoodwright]

As it turns out, and I think I am not alone, is that I keep going out, looking for something better, and keep circling back to Maslow as my go-to for my particular use case

To be clear and provide updated context, when I originally posted this, I was looking for a way to duplicate or nearly duplicate myself in my shop building bespoke woodworking.

I have since burned completely out and am now becoming semi retired. I have no overhead to speak of. An appropriately equipped woodshop, and a small line of guitar amp speaker cabinets that are becoming the primary focus of my output.

I need to be able to mill parts from 4x8 sheets, but would like to be able to square up and cut to final dimensions from slightly oversized blanks. The parts for more upscale versions of my flatpack gear.

There is more, but everything I really need to be able to do, the Maslow does it. Maybe not as fast as some,or to aerospace level nit-noid hyper accuracy.

.5 is close enough for my needs

So, I’m going to get one. I’m actually considering 2, but will start with one as soon as this job I’m finishing now, pays out.

Edit to add:

Bar, please continue developing and supporting the Maslow. I know there is a “Mini-Maslow” on the horizon, and I too am curious , but the 4.1 does deserve to be fleshed all the way out, no?

Or

Maybe Mini Maslow is the future …can’t wait to have maybe , I dunno one of each maybe? Lol.

[Mr.Blue]

thanks for the update. I was also looking for something that would cut a full sheet of plywood, my reasons or what I wanted the machine for has changed (looks to be the same with you). Regardless, the maslow appears to be the best option in this price range for a full 4x8 capacity (limited by the need for islands in your cuts).

[Madcapwoodwright]

Honestly, as much as I like the fact that stuff like Shapeoko etc. are indeed capable of production or nearly production levels of volume cleanly , it’s still $7k once all is said and done

However, for my use case(one man -250sqft shop, building limited SKU’S, in limited small batch drops, with nearly no overhead, and an aversion to strict timelines) I am convinced that as long as I can dial the machine into a repeatable level of accuracy, which seems possible with the improvements in the calibration operation, and the new algorithm currently being tested, plus simple demands regarding what’s actually getting cut i.e. lots of rectangles, I for the life of me cannot talk myself out of this machine. Even if the calibration and tuning took a while, I’m good with that. My frame will be semi permanent. So belt anchors locations won’t move once set.up and tuned. The speed issue is also not a big deal. I can cut the same parts on a slider nearly as fast as a.Weekie.But because I can work on other stuff while babysitting the Maslow, I’m effectively duplicated in the shop, even if it is slower.

My situation is not currently time dependent. I build a batch, and drop it when it’s ready .

Am I missing something? I mean, I get initial set up is, or can be a PITA. But once beyond that and dialed in, what else out there does this for $525?

Nothing.

If it’s actually possible to get accurate cuts repeatedly, with a reasonable amount of precision, even if it takes a frustrating amount of time to dial in, how is this not a.seruous game changer for a solo Woodwright like myself?

It’s a lot of machine, doing properly, exactly what I need it to do, on a 4x8 sheet of material, for around $1K all in

Seriously, am I NOT being right headed about this?

Is the time from assembly to calibration to repeatability that much of a slog?

Does the machine not hold settings between sheets to be cut? I have to believe that all the dismissive content I have read, claiming this to be more toylike that useful, is mostly from previous variants of the design, no?

Is the 4.1 a vastly improved design with more user friendly features?

While I am certainly intending to use this machine widely in my one man shop I’ll not be building my business on it. It won’t depend entirely on the CNC. I’m trying to offload some repetitive operations I do in the shop, to the machine. This machine seems to do what I need if properly set up. Please tell me if I’m just totally missing the boat here?

[dlang]

the maslow has always been very repeatable, where is suffers at times is
accuracy.

so after you dial things in, you can correct for any errors in the gcode that
you send to it

David Lang

[Mr.Blue]

what I like about the maslow is it ability to operate near vertical. You know what kind of space saving that is. I’m planning on putting a 4.1 together tomorrow, I’ll let you know how it goes.

I bought a 4.0 but after doing some reading here on how much a massive improvement was had by going away from the rj45s connector’s and how much of a pain in the ass upgrading would be after it was put together putting off assembly until the 4.1 parts showed up seemed to be a no brainer.

There are a few here who have modded the maslow very effectively, Dave above has done some very nice work from what I’ve read and seen photos of.

[Madcapwoodwright]

I appreciate you guys.

I truly have been wracking my brain, troubleshooting imaginary situations. For what I do, in the volume I do it, I really don’t think this can be beat. I mean, unless Bar decides to stop supporting or developing it that is . Otherwise, this seems a good idea for my shop.

I am researching the frames still. Sort of settled on 11x7 (as close to 12x8 as I can get.) tipped at 15*. I’m working through cost benefit of aluminum vs. Timber vs. Hybrid between the two.

I’m not far from ordering one

[Madcapwoodwright]

Dlang,

Thanks for chiming in. Good to get some confirmation on what I had been suspecting.

I appreciate your input., thanks

[Madcapwoodwright]

@mrblue

Please do keep us posted on your progress…especially me…lol…I’m dying to hear how the build out and set up/calibrations/first cuts go.

I’m going to guess I’m about 3 months behind you. So I’m legit keeping my fingers crossed that Bar doesn’t run out of units from the current stash. I want at least one, and if I can swing it, 2 machines. I have an idea for a second frame outside my shop for big work.

Anyway, while I have yet to put money where my mouth is, I’m pretty committed to this as a viable force multiplier in my shop .

[wouldchuck]

It seems that good solid wood frames work well. I don’t know what you’d gain with aluminum I think you can get better rigidity with cheap thick wood beams where aluminum would be pretty and have channels to lock into but would be thinner in the machine z direction and flex more. A rough 2 by 6 is going to bend less along its spine than a 2 or 3 inch aluminum extrusion. For rigidity in the XY direction I would add diagonal cables with turnbuckles to any rectangular frame and it will be super solid. Unless you go full three d space frame I think wood beams win for flexing. Much cheaper. Could easily upgrade later