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Boat Builders Projects


#62

I love watching people building catamarans. Thanks for the link. I’m trying to avoid FB whenever possible. Enough said…

That’s a pretty ambitious project for a 3 year build. That’s basically a full time job for at least one person. I’ve had a great experience with Dudley Dix over the years. A buddy of mine was building a large cat on Alameda, CA and it was mind blowing to see what he had accomplished by himself over the last few years.

I used to build aluminum sport-fishing boats and the crazy thing is that building the boat is only half done once you’ve got the boat built. The cabinetry, trim, systems, etc. take a huge amount of time to install.


#63

I just got a very fast reply from hannah stating that even if I pulled the trigger today, I wouldn’t get my shiny new Maslow until June. It looks like I’ll be relegated to cutting out parts by hand for a little while longer. Sigh…

In all fairness, I’m not ready to pull the trigger and I’ve been on the $1 wait list since they announced it, so it’s all on me…:wink:

To give an incentive to the other boat builders here, just yesterday, I spent two hours laying out parts and two hours cutting out parts. That yielded three parts total (e.g. bottom panel and two #1 panels).

IMG_6467

I just had a thought about tiling 12’ parts. Instead of indexing using two origins at the base line that are both some distance away from the part (which could induce error), what if I sliced the part in half, then just used the last point cut from the first half to be the origin for the second half (by manually jogging the bit to fit into the very end of the cut). That would ensure the two halves would have to line up. Hmmm…

tiling


#64

On another thread (sorry, I couldn’t find it), they were talking about not being able to get accurate cuts toward the very top of the sheet due to the chains being under so much tension. Marine plywood is considerably more expensive than the stuff you get a the big box stores and every inch counts. For example, today I have to manually lay out and cut out six curved strakes out of one 48" wide sheet, with almost perfect nesting. If that last strake is short, I then have to go buy another $100 sheet of plywood and scarf it. Having the ability to nest the parts in a CAD/CAM program would eliminate that stressor.

Doing these cuts by hand leaves me lots of mental bandwidth to consider CNC operations on the Maslow. This may be better for question for over on the frame threads, but what if the top of the frame was raised so that the chains have a more vertical component at the top of the plywood? This might lessen the strain on the chains, optimizing the use of expensive materials. One of the main reasons I haven’t purchased a Maslow yet is that I’m waiting for the jury to come back with the verdict on being able to cut accurately across the entire 48" x 96" area. I have read comments on both sides of that coin. I’m excited about the possibilities though.

Another option in the LapStitch world of boat building is to let the Maslow do the rabbets on the bottom edges of each strake panel. With the addition of Z-control, you could easily make the Maslow raise the bit and machine the 1/8" deep groove/notch which allows the panels to support each other during the initial assembly. This is another nerve-wracking process when done by hand on expensive/scarfed panels.


#65

On another thread (sorry, I couldn’t find it), they were talking about not
being able to get accurate cuts toward the very top of the sheet due to the
chains being under so much tension.

to be clear, the problem is that you cannot cut as fast, not that you cannot cut
accurately.

a lighter sled lets you cut faster along the top, and your power supply needs to
be in good shape (there is not a lot of headroom in the maslow power supply, to
keep costs down everything is just barely ‘good enough’)

Doing these cuts by hand leaves me lots of mental bandwidth to consider CNC
operations on the Maslow. This may be better for question for over on the
frame threads, but what if the top of the frame was raised so that the chains
have a more vertical component at the top of the plywood? This might lessen
the strain on the chains

it does, but it also makes it so that the chains have more of a vertical
component in the bottom corners, and your cuts there suffer.

Is the current setup optimal? almost certainly NO. But you need to be aware that
there are trade-offs, and we need people to test things.

Another option in the LapStitch world of boat building is to let the Maslow do
the dados on the bottom edges of each strake panel. With the addition of
Z-control, you could easily make the Maslow raise the bit and machine the 1/8"
deep groove/notch which allows the panels to support each other during the
initial assembly. This is another nerve-wracking process when done by hand on
expensive/scarfed panels.

you don’t have a Z axis on your maslow? you really should get it.


#66

Where did you get the Japanese saw? What brand do you use?

Thank you


#67

Thanks for the great feedback! As a professional sailor, I’m well aware of trade-offs, whether they’re on boats or CNC machines.


#68

You’re gonna laugh, but it’s a Harbor Freight special. For $10, it’s at least as good as the $40 ones they sell at the big box stores. Plus, not only am I cutting through two sheets of plywood, but I’m often also cutting through masonite/tempered hardboard to make a template that’s an exact copy of the part. That’s really tough on the teeth, so no need to buy “good” saws. The good news is that it lets me stay right on the line, make graceful curved cuts and the kerf is tiny. I buy two at a time, so I always have a spare sharp one. The attic of my shop looks like a boat graveyard with all the template parts stored up there. You never know when you’ll have to whip out another boat…:sunglasses:


#69

Another boat I’m seriously tempted to build is the Tenderly, especially the new XP version. It’s another boat from the masters of stitch & glue, CLCBoats.com. The original version is a very salty looking dinghy with floor boards, etc. The XP eschews some of the classic looks for more practical flotation tank seating which makes it a great trainer. It also adds a bowsprit, which I think makes just about any boat look better. The addition of the bowsprit also allows the addition of a jib, which drastically improves the performance of the boat, especially upwind.

image

One of the many nice touches on this boat is the scuppered inwales. I also like the more classic look of the standard version, where the strakes are bent around frames.

Both boats have the exact same hull form, however the sail plans are not interchangeable. The sloop rig is only for the XP, but both can handle the lug sail.

Both boats are 10’ long so you’ll need either a scarf or puzzle joint to make the plywood blanks. This once again raises the tiling question. CLC doesn’t offer DXF files, so you’d have to go through the effort of taking offsets from the paper plans.

The standard Tenderly is a relatively new addition to CLC’s fleet, but has met with a lot of success. The XP version is so new that they haven’t even released the plans yet. Another huge design difference between the two models is that the XP has a centerboard instead of a daggerboard. This is a huge feature improvement and increases the complexity of the build significantly. Centerboards are really nice, especially for trainers since it will rotate up and out of the way if you run aground. Conversely, a daggerboard will possibly break or do severe damage to the boat if you run aground.

With all that being said, let’s look at why I didn’t buy the Tenderly plans yet. First, it’s more work to build than the 12’ Passagemaker. It’s weighs more and has considerably less payload. Bang for the buck, the Passagemaker makes more sense for my family right now. That’s not to say that the Tenderly might not be a labor of love project down the road.


#70

just a note that your local lumberyard can order plywood up to 16’ long. it will take time to arrive, but it’s not that much more expensive per square foot than the normal stuff.

the factories produce plywood in longer lenths and then they get cut down to length.


#71

I’ve seen a 4 x 8 sheet exit a truck moving rapidly down the freeway. It was not pretty as it went up then came down like an axe. A 4 x16 could be problematic for the average car to transport. It might be worth having it delivered.

My 2 cents

Thank you


#72

CLCBoat’s (and others) use ‘Puzzle joints’ to basically scarf together multiple lengths of plywood into any length you need. Using silica thickened epoxy, they’re strong while retaining enough flex in the overall plank or strake that they work really well.

Also, Maslow is perfectly suited to create them.


#73

Yes, the puzzle joint is functionally better than a scarf joint for several reasons. They are also pretty goofy looking if you want to finish your boat bright. Having recently made my own scarf joints, they’re not the easiest thing to pull off successfully. I looked into making my own puzzle joints with a dovetail jig template, but opted against it this time. I may need to revisit that concept on the next boat.

BTW, the new method of gluing puzzle joint is to wet the puzzle joint down with unthickened epoxy first, then goop in the colloidal silica paste. This promotes greater penetration into the wood. My scarf joints cause only the slightest little kink in the planks, which otherwise have bent nice and fair into a boat shape.

IMG_6498


#74

I might have to look into that for the next boat. I’m not happy with my scarf joints, but the puzzle joint has its own issues. I brought home plenty of 16’ long lumber when I was building my shop on my little Harbor Freight trailer, so it’s doable.

It’s going to be a very interesting discussion when deciding on the next boat to build. Probably either CLCBoats.com’s Tenderly XP (as discussed above) or NanoShip 3.0.


#75

So goofy lookin:

j/k they blend right in!

Ya gotta remember to take like 3 steps back (“and another, giant step back!” - bob weir '77) .

After its built, turn yer head off, and all the little imperfections can fade away, if you want them to. =)


#76

Well played, sir…:wink:


#77

Well, I’m almost done with cutting out all the parts of the boat. Yesterday, I actually started to glue the parts together with the ubiquitous epoxy & wood flour “peanut butter” mixture. I just hit 60 hours. I have a very strong feeling that I could have saved at least 20 hours with a Maslow if not more. It would be an interesting experiment to build the same boat both ways. Actually, I would’ve probably spent that 20 hours generating the cut files, but then the next boat would go much more quickly.

Anyway, I’ll continue to post occasional progress pics and continue with CNC/boat related discussions…

Here, I’ve tacked the transoms in place with a 3/4" radius fillet. Once cured, I can remove the stitches and go over the whole thing with a continuous 1" radius fillet (made from two different plastic putty knives).

Next step is to flip the boat and fill all the seams in the hull. Wish me luck! The good news is that shop temperatures are starting to get comfortably into the epoxy curing zone!

IMG_6508

IMG_6506

IMG_6507


#78

Quick update: Angus sailing rowcruiser deal fell through. About half way done with Passagemaker dinghy build (80 hours in). Yesterday, glassed the exterior of garboards. Today, trimming transoms flush, flipping boat upright and attacking interior fillets and glass.

IMG_6521


#79

Shame the Row-cruiser fell through, would have been interesting to see that coming together. Nevermind, the next deal will be just around the corner.


#80

Thanks. I’m actually okay with it. Since I was contacted for a quote, we sold our house, meaning we’ll have to move and I’m sure there will be a whole brand new “Honey Do” list for the new place (e.g. the place we looked at yesterday needed about 1,000 ft² of new flooring to put in). Besides, that just means more time to finish my Passagemaker and take my son sailing! Plus, I’m about to start teaching week-long sailing classes and they are a lot of work.

So between looking at houses, I’m still working my way through the build manual. The interior is glassed. Last night, I was able to fillet the long, interior seams between the planks. This is for comfort and to shed water. This afternoon, when we get back from another trip to Camano Island looking at houses, I’m going to do the first of two coats of epoxy to the entire interior. They will fill the weave of the glass and give me enough thickness to sand the entire interior smooth in prep for non-skid paint.

In the mean time, I am working on the sailboat parts. I glassed the interior of the daggerboard case. I will also be adding a few coats of graphite epoxy to that for wear resistance. I also get to shape the daggerboard and rudder to give them that cool profile. Once I know the thickness of my daggerboard, I get to determine the thickness of the daggerboard case logs that determine the width of the slot. Then the case assembly gets glued up, which then attaches to the center thwart assembly.

So, hopefully by this weekend, I’ll have the interior ready for paint and possibly the bulkheads in place permanently. I’m 80 hours into this build and should be past the half-way point. I’m actually starting to think about ordering the sails to start working on those so I’m working on the boat in parallel instead of serial, which would drag out into the summer more.

Sorry for the lack of pics. Once I’m gloved up and gooey with epoxy everywhere, it’s difficult to take pics without encasing my phone in epoxy.


#81

Quick update: My wife just informed me we have plans for July 4th on a lake, so the countdown has begun. I put several reminders in my calendar, starting today being 8 weeks out.

So yesterday, I was able to put the first full coat of epoxy on the entire interior of the boat. This is to fill the weave of the fiberglass and seal all the fillets on the lap joints. I was also able to put two coats of graphite epoxy over the fiberglassed interior of the daggerboard case. This will give it strength and abrasion resistance.

One of the most fun parts is to shape the blades. I was able to get the rudder shaped using my Shinto saw rasp. The layers in the plywood act like a topo map for shaping the airfoil shape into the lamination.

Today is the second coat of epoxy on the interior and assembling the daggerboard case so I’m in position to install the bulkheads tomorrow. They can then cure over the weekend while I’m teaching an overnight Basic Coastal Cruising class.

The reason why I bring this up is that not only can the profile of the blades be cut out with a Maslow, but with proper Z-axis control, the tapers could also be machined. Some programs use gray-scale gradients to do tapers like this. Since the tapers are all geometric, it would be very easy to generate a cut file with gradients.

This might entail a switch-over to a ball end bit, but it’s still very doable. I’m not worried as much because I’m planning on painting my blades, but you could easily showcase the precision of your Maslow by finishing the blades bright by making the perfect layer lines visible.