How to get a Maslow CNC for a deserving high school?

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Hi,

I just saw the Maslow CNC coverage by Thomas Sanladerer at MFBA, and was instantly blown away.

First, some background:

I’ve been an engineer for over 30 years, and I’ve been volunteering quite a bit at a local continuation high school.

Ive been helping in a wide range of areas, starting with being a tutor/TA for math and CS classes, and also being a mentor/advisor in the construction and agriculture classes. A large chunk of my time was also spent pushing long-neglected projects to completion, particularly in support of the school’s large garden, which included raised soil beds, a small grove of fruit trees, and a large closed-loop hydroponic/aquaponic system that include a tilapia pond.

There were three things this school (and every school?) desperately needed: Money, staff time, and volunteer support. By volunteering my time I was helping ease some demands on the first two items, but not as much as I’d like.

One thing I’d really like to see is more education in the context of applied technology. The CS class project is to make a simple Java game: I’d like to see them also contribute to useful applications to meet real needs in the school, particularly with monitoring technology in the garden. I’d also like to see the construction and shop classes create CAD designs they can then build.

That’s why the Maslow CNC blew me away, as an ideal union of design and fabrication. While I greatly enjoy 3D printing, and believe every student should be exposed to it, working on a larger scale with construction materials could more directly lead to real-world careers.

Unfortunately, I know the school lacks the funds to purchase a Maslow CNC, and it is also way beyond my ability to provide one as a donation.

So I’ve come here seeking wisdom:

  1. Would a Maslow CNC be appropriate for a high school construction shop?

  2. If so, which ways should I investigate to help make this happen? At the moment, given that I have no fundraising experience, I’m having trouble getting beyond a “GoFundMe” campaign. Other ideas?

  3. Who else should I try to recruit to get involved? I’m certain the school faculty and staff will get behind it, but who else?

What other questions should I be asking?

Thanks,

-BobC

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Welcome! I’m sure @bar and @hannah will get back to you if there are still kits available for schools.
$350 for the kit, plus a router and some wood should not be so much of a problem, I think.
Perhaps put it on the kids to ask their parents and/or approach local businesses to act as sponsors.
$50 here and there and in no time you should have the funds together. (just a guess)

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I’ve seen too many school support efforts languish with low rates of fundraising, until it got to the point where volunteers lost interest (too much time invested for too little return) and moved on to other efforts. I’m looking for proven methods to quickly get this done, with minimal effort and, most importantly, minimal wasted effort.

Any teachers here?

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I’ve seen a couple of teachers here, but can’t point them out by name.

From my view Maslow can involve:
A must: CAD, CAM, woodworking, like sanding, mounting, painting.
Optional: Programming, the firmware uses a set of C/C++ functions uploaded to the Arduino Mega.
GroundControl uses Python and Kivy.
As for projects what to do with a Maslow, the sky is the limit. It could be emergency shelters, frames for hydroponics systems, design or flatpack furniture and even a boat.

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By the time you add up all the costs (kit, router, bits, tools, etc.), this is closer to a $1000 system.

Spares of some components should also be purchased right at the start, because teenagers. This makes me wonder if TWO kits is actually the right starting point for a school. Because if/when this dies, it may be dead for quite a while until labor and funds become available to repair it.

For security and safety reasons the system will need to be mobile enough to be easily stored in the shipping container the school uses for construction tools and supplies. I’m thinking the “stock” Maslow configuration will be used just once, to make a “quick breakdown kit” for the system.

So, my SWAG is that this should be budgeted for at least $2K, a chunk of which will be used to lay in an initial supply of plywood… Anyone see ways to get all this done for less?

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Downtime because of a burnt motor shield is pain full. I know waiting for it to be shipped around the world. The original kit is designed at close limits to keep the price low.
From what I’ve seen a second motor shield is a must to keep cutting.
If your are expecting continuous runs, I suggest an alternative shield.
http://maslowcommunitygarden.org/TLE5206-PowerControl-Boards.html
The power supply is also a candidate for failing and I suggest one with more amps, like 10A.
The motors I’m running a year on heavy weight and see no sign of decrease. Same with the chains.
My Bosch GOF2000CE is to strong, to bulky and to heavy but does not even get warm with speeds it runs.
A bulk of router bits and sheets of ply, MDF, hardboard or materials is going to be the running cost.
A good shop vac is also essential and addition dust masks.
You might be not far off with the 2k estimate.

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Hi BobC

Feel free to email me at hannah@maslowcnc.com regarding a donation!

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For any who have been following this thread, Hanna immediately offered to send a kit! But this has a rather immediate window, due to their plans.

When I shared the news with the school, I learned very quickly that even donations take time if they are to be successful, rather than gather dust (a surprisingly common occurrence). There is not just the Maslow CNC kit to consider, but all the other stuff needed to create a functioning installation, plus consumables, and so on, including ongoing support to keep it all working.

However, the most important factor is the curriculum, the detailed lesson plans to get “beginner Maker” high school students from zero to design concept and on to CAD and then on to the Maslow CNC and final assembly

There is also the need for ongoing support, particularly funding. Fortunately, fabrication projects have the ability to become self-funding by making products for sale and/or to custom order. But the organizational infrastructure needed to make that happen must also be implemented.

The Construction instructor won’t be able to even consider looking at this before August. Which means I have a couple months to get all the other ducks in a row.

I have many questions for the Maslow CNC Community:

  1. How many of you live in San Diego County? I see no way for this venture to work without support from the local Maslow CNC community.

  2. Do any of you have ways to cart your Maslow CNC around for demos? I believe nothing will motivate everyone involved better than on-site demos for staff and students.

  3. Should I just take the kit now, while it is available, and try to find it another home if this school chooses to pass on it? There are several high schools with wood shops in San Diego County. My main concern is it could gather dust while the wheels turn, where the kit could otherwise be sold to a customer.

  4. What about making the Maslow CNC portable? Perhaps a stand to make it easier to cart around in the back of a pickup, or to fit on a small trailer And rugged!. That way, a single Maslow CNC could be shared by multiple schools. (The logistics would be worse, since it would likely be easier to cart students to the Maslow CNC, but it would allow buy-in from more schools.)

  5. Finally, the Big One: Would the general Maslow CNC Community be willing to work with Construction teachers to create the curriculum needed to make the entire process accessible to students? This would include lesson plans, videos, sample designs, and so on, It may be a good project to host on this wiki, perhaps with files on Google Docs.

Your thoughts? Should I just “Go for it!” and accept the kit now, then simply hope it all works out?

Edit: If this project is successful, this forum should expect to be visited by many students working on projects, not to mention homework assignments. You all OK with that?

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  1. What about making the Maslow CNC portable? Perhaps a stand to make it
    easier to cart around in the back of a pickup, or to fit on a small trailer
    And rugged!. That way, a single Maslow CNC could be shared by multiple
    schools. (The logistics would be worse, since it would likely be easier to
    cart students to the Maslow CNC, but it would allow buy-in from more schools.)

mounting on a small trailer would probably be the best (several people have done
this).

with a 10’ top beam, and 6.5-7’ tall, it doesn’t fit well in the back of most
pickups. but a 10-12’ long trailer would work extremely well.

  1. Finally, the Big One: Would the general Maslow CNC Community be willing to
    work with Construction teachers to create the curriculum needed to make the
    entire process accessible to students? This would include lesson plans,
    videos, sample designs, and so on, It may be a good project to host on this
    wiki, perhaps with files on Google Docs.

I can think it’s safe to say you would have lots of community help

Your thoughts? Should I just “Go for it!” and accept the kit now, then simply hope it all works out?

Yes you should. What’s the benefit of not accepting the kit?

Edit: If this project is successful, this forum should expect to be visited
by many students working on projects, not to mention homework assignments.
You all OK with that?

sure, as long as they don’t expect us to do the work for them :slight_smile:

David Lang

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Well, for me it’s about Hanna and Bar being generous folks with a tiny business built on a dream. Having a box gathering dust would, in my view, be an insult to their generosity.

I was thinking a possible homework assignment would be to ask each student team to answer questions that are not already answered by the lesson material or the wiki or in the forum archives, to prompt their participation in the community to seek wisdom, with one goal being to take the responses and do more than simply turn in an assignment, but to go beyond that to update lesson materials and/or update the wiki.

Two key features of the Maslow CNC are that it’s Open Source, and relies heavily on its community. It’s about more than cutting lumber! In fact, if the students never again do any woodworking, I’d hope they’d still become valued members of whatever other online communities they do join.

Hmmm… Perhaps there should be separate student areas in the forum and wiki. Or maybe a Maslow CNC area on Stack Exchange.

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Yes. Maslow is taking a constructive brainstorming break and it might be a while until new kits are available.
Let it collect dust until you are ready.

I disagree. The Maslow community as I know it is up for the task of having a crowd of students ask tons of questions. It is not much difference when a new batch has arrived at new users. It gets tough for 2 week and then even new user start helping others and it calms down.
From what I’ve seen is that the community has gained benefit in both directions. Every question asked is at the same time feedback on how the documentation could be made better.
The advantages of asking a question here is that you get deferent options. It helps a lot.

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If the school has a robotics team, they might be a resource for you. The Maslow can be a good resource for a robotics team, and the team can be a good resource for some of those ancillary expenses.

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I’ve been thinking more about how a Maslow CNC could integrate with education, and I have some concerns.

Classes are 70 minutes long, with 50 minutes available for direct project work. Maslow CNC runs often take far longer. How best to handle this difference?

My first thought was to get the Z option, so more of the cut could be done with minimal need for intervention, so only monitoring would be needed.

My second thought concerned the possibility of, at the end of class, pausing a cut while in-progress, saving its state, removing the work piece. Then, on the next day, remounting it and resuming the cut from where it left off.

The thing is, it would need to be turned off anyway at the end of the school day.

Would this work at all well with the Maslow CNC workflows any of you use?

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@mlugo has posted a few student Maslow projects, so they might have better insight on how to integrate Maslow into a classroom setting.

As for handling long cut times, I think the best solution would be for you to figure out how to do most of the cutting outside of class time. There isn’t much value for students in watching the Maslow zip around a piece of plywood for hours.

If that isn’t possible, some ideas to shorten cut times would be to make smaller, less complicated projects and use thinner stock (fewer passes = less time).

Removing and then replacing work pieces mid-cut doesn’t seem like a good idea. You probably won’t get the piece exactly back in place which could lead to problems if partial cuts were made. What you could do instead is break the project up so that pieces can be cut separately. This would give you more freedom in terms of starting and stopping - the pieces wouldn’t even need to be cut from the same sheet.

You could also stagger when you cut projects for each class. For example, Monday you cut class A’s project, Tuesday you cut class B’s project. That way you aren’t picking up and taking down pieces of plywood all day, both for the accuracy of your cuts as well as your general health and sanity.

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Not seeing anyone in SD, but a few in LA

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I’ve been thinking more about how a Maslow CNC could integrate with education,
and I have some concerns.

Classes are 70 minutes long, with 50 minutes available for direct project
work. Maslow CNC runs often take far longer. How best to handle this
difference?

My first thought was to get the Z option, so more of the cut could be done
with minimal need for intervention, so only monitoring would be needed.

you always want the Z, it’s a safety thing, not just a convienience thing.

My second thought concerned the possibility of, at the end of class, pausing a
cut while in-progress, saving its state, removing the work piece. Then, on
the next day, remounting it and resuming the cut from where it left off.

that’s possible, but doing so is tricky.

The thing is, it would need to be turned off anyway at the end of the school day.

Would this work at all well with the Maslow CNC workflows any of you use?

the problem is that g-code is extremely primitive, and there is hidden state. so
if you stop a cut, then want to re-start it, you don’t just say “I stopped at
line 50, so I start at line 51”

I would try to make arrangements for it to keep cutting as much as possible
(over lunch, after school as long as you are allowed to be there, before
school, etc) but NEVER unattended!!

look at g-code optimization, just taking the default that makercam produced and
telling it to cut can take several times as long as an optimized cut. This takes
more work at the computer, but it saves time on the router

beyond that, you should be experimenting to see how deeply you can cut (reducing
from 3 passes to 2 saves you a LOT of time)

with appropriate bits and dust collectors (and the router turned down from it’s
max speed), it can be quiet enough to keep running while other stuff is going on

David Lang

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Many thanks to all for the VERY kind support!

I’ve decided this project is too ambitious for the school at which I’m currently volunteering.
I expect to be at a larger high school in the Fall, and will see if that will be a better fit.

For now, I’ll be going with 3D printing (FDM) for small-scale automated fabrication, in the hope it will kindle a desire to make bigger things from plywood or MDF.

Which got me thinking about combining the two: Use 3D printing for sub-scale prototypes, then once proven to work, go full-scale with a Maslow CNC.

With FDM we can make not only parts, but also molds for parts, providing a way to use more materials than just plastics.

For the moment, it makes more sense to start small…

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