eh, possibly. However, I’m assuming that at some point they will be selling M4 kits too.
I have never had to really work with them but I will hope the current vendors can work through the transition and continue on. Bar probably isnt going to be shipping kits forever and there will need to be someone to carry on the production. Third party providers will be how the community will continue to grow after Bar pulls back.
I’m TJ Weber with MakerMade and Sourcery - the strategic sourcing arm in China (we manufacture all the kits for MakerMade). I do not post in the forums but I follow them. I have been in touch with Bar for several months.
There are plans in the works since @bar has indicated his intentions to open source the Maslow 4. To avoid confusion we’re not going to launch an “M4”. We will keep the M2 branding as it is and release a new product under a different name.
Without going too far into future plans and details, we do intend to support our customer base. As people know, Makerverse software has been buggy with login issues. I will soon have a resolution for that. MakerMade will launch several additional products in the CNC and 3D Printer space - with the goal of keeping prices low and affordable for users.
Regarding the email marketing message today and price change last week. September 1st was chosen because that will start our Labor Day sale. This is not a coincidence based on the end of the Kickstarter. The price change needed to happen
MakerMade acknowledges our company roots go back to Bar and his goal to get low cost CNC products to the market. We always committed to selling the Basic Kit (Maslow v3) in the form it was handed to us. We filled that 5-year gap with thousands of additional kit sales to build the Maslow CNC name and community. Along with East Bay Source and MetalMaslow, the community is much stronger now.
I have communicated to Bar I am open and willing to assist with Maslow 4 in any way possible on my China side. He knows how to get in touch with me if needed. I fully support the mission of Maslow CNC and we really look forward to the next chapter in both Maslow CNC and MakerMade.
I might not reply to all messages in the thread, but feel free to tag me if anything or reach out over email to tj@makermade.com.
Thanks,
—t.j. weber
Maker Made
Thanks for your reply - apologies for casting any aspersions - And I personally appreciate what you’ve been doing, because I bought my Maslow from you a few years ago.
I’m not really sure how to navigate the issue of knock offs. I would like keep Maslow4 open to encourage other designs inspired by it, make it modifiable, and generally promote the idea, but I’m not cool with direct copies of my design.
MakerMade was founded by a couple of guys who were generally excited about the maker community and taking over selling kits. Running a business is hard and they ended up in dept to their supplier in China who ended up owning the business. MakerMade does not currently employ anyone technical or creative, they just duplicate existing designs.
At some point selling a copy of my design without giving back is just taking money from me and from the community. I want to make Maslow4 open to encourage the design to continue to evolve, but If knockoffs end up making it so that it’s not a viable business to do on going then development stops and that’s bad for everyone.
It’s a tricky thing to navigate. I’m open to any ideas or suggestions.
wait… what? was not aware of this part.
I got different stories from everyone involved, but my takeaway is that I am not interested in being involved both for my sanity and for the success of the project.
Understandable given the circumstances. I’m sorry I spoke up, not knowing the full history bar.
This part requires some clarification. Sourcery (the China company and supplier) is my company, owned by a family group I am a part of. We are based in Hong Kong and Shenzhen, China. I am an American, and we have an office in Chicago (Sales) and Dallas (R&D). I was not one of the original partners in Make Made, but I am the primary supplier and was involved very early on. Sourcery’s business is quite a lot more than Maker Made, although our website is very basic.
Sourcery holds senior secured debt of Maker Made. What happens in the future with Maker Made ownership has not yet been determined. However, Sourcery, for the past 18 months, has committed to keeping the Maker Made brand alive. There are three partners in Maker Made and different versions of every story. This is not the forum for me to get into those details, but Bar is correct - there is a large debt owed to Sourcery.
Now let me put on my Maker Made hat… 
When Maslow made the “Chain Maslow” Open Source in mid-2018, there was a high demand for Maslow kits. Maker Made jumped on this opportunity to continue supplying the community at a price point very close to Bar’s price. Of course, businesses have basic overhead - salaries, taxes, operating costs, travel, insurance, etc… When you add staff - those costs go higher. And when you need to put marketing, advertising, and R&D into the mix, those costs can sometimes spiral out of control.
Maker Made added a 3D Printer to the lineup - we were the first to run a Raspberry Pi onboard with a 7-inch touchscreen and creative UI. We expanded on the original Maslow and introduced the M2 with the DUE board, additional controls, different software, laser, camera, etc… . A bit of R&D went into the M2 and the need to recoup that investment. In the commitment to keep the Maslow project going, the Orignal Maslow Basic Kit is still available and selling. We direct people to the Maslow forums and encourage them to be part of the Maslow community.
Now to Sourcery and Maker Made - as part of my commitment to keep the Maker Made brand alive - and promoting the Maslow project - Sourcery does have engineers on staff and more products lined up. We aim to build on existing open-source platforms and keep the costs affordable for people to buy. We will not price our products extremely low as we see from many overseas sellers in Asia, but we will not be priced on the very high end as we see from other hobby CNC and 3D printing companies.
If there is ever a need for Maker Made to step in and sell the Maslow 4 as we did with the original Maslow, Bar can reach out to us. We respect and value our relationship with Bar and Maslow CNC for enabling and empowering this community.
I am available for any questions or comments but feel free to email me unless you feel it is important for the forum and the thread.
Thanks,
–t.j. weber
tj@makermade.com - Maker Made 
tjw@sourcery.com - Sourcery
If there is ever a need for Maker Made to step in and sell the Maslow 4 as we
did with the original Maslow, Bar can reach out to us. We respect and value
our relationship with Bar and Maslow CNC for enabling and empowering this
community.
rather than just duplicating the existing design, I would suggest looking at
extending it for different uses
for example, what about a plasma cutter version, with cheap 50a plasma cutters
available, something like the maslow 4 that had a metal sled (avoid melting on
hot slag)
or a paint/pen version to make large images (how do you keep the sled from
smearing the work is the problem there, but people seem to be making it work)
or a heavier duty version (larger diameter, metal parts instead of plastic, etc)
at the risk of causing ill feelings, one issue with the M2/makermade is that
while you are directing people to the maslow forums, there hasn’t been a
corresponding participation by anyone involved with the company, so we get
people showing up here asking questions that we don’t know the answer for, and
sometimes getting demanding and upset because they think we are the official
support for the company. That results in bad feelings on all sides at times.
I personally would see having the maslow discussions of all varients here as a
good thing, but we need to have people who understand it here to answer the
question.
David Lang
Perhaps have an official presence on the forums - you are offering these kits as a commercial enterprise, yet direct people here for support. That’s not really the aim of the forum - to act as free support for your products.
Participate - you say you’ve got r&d guys - well - give back to the community - open source your updates, so everyone benefits.
Its easy for Chinese companies to jump in and take open source products - but look at your selling price… Its China… We all know how much the prices are there… You’re not really offering a fantastic deal - considering the base cost. A few guys in the US is different… Costs are higher, but China - we can look on AliExpress to find the costs, and youre obviously getting it cheaper.
To be honest… I had plenty of problems with Makermade and the “support” I was NOT given to problems I had. I tried to find the email they sent directing me to this forum for answers but can not find it. I have always had the feeling they were more out for money than support of their product. No offense meant… just my honest feelings.
We used our Maslow to build things for sale at a market near us which we used the money to build ramps for handicapped folks needing an easier way to get into their house. We went a month without making anything while working with them to figure out the issues. We never did.
I ended up buying another kit from another unnamed source to which I had issues with also… but figured things out by using this forum. The support this forum gives is incredible! I can not say that about Makermade. Unfortunately we have wore our machine out and can’t wait to see Maslow 4!
I do not know the answer to this issue? But I am Leary of Makermade. To be very honest… I would not feel comfortable, at this stage, buying anything unless it was from @Bar.
Sailmaking and canvas work. Marking seam lines and cut lines. Pen, drag knife or laser. Real world application and very useful. I have hand-cut a few sails and running the maslow 4 on a flat surface, or angled surface with vacuum, would have made these jobs very much easier and faster for small businesses or amateurs.
ooh, yes, drag knife, and drag roller (cut/mark cardboard for folding if there
is enough weight on the sled) are really good options
David Lang
As someone who has been with MakerMade since the early days, I have had the opportunity of working for both the previous Founders, as well as TJ. One of the previous founders was trying to position MakerMade as a high-tech start-up and live the Silicon Valley life, taking on massive amounts of debt to pay for his bloated staff without progressing the community or the product.
Over the past year, we’ve been working diligently to eliminate that debt and reduce overhead so we can get back to the roots of what MakerMade was intended to be, an affordable DIY CNC kit that encourages community engagement.
I personally am excited to see that you’ve been working on improving the first few iterations of the Maslow, as it shows the community support is there. MakerMade has worked hard to continue growing the community and the interest on CNC kits.
While yes, TJ is the original supplier of MakerMade, he has been a part of the core group from very early on and has a more community focused view of how to continue growing interest in CNC Kits. Our team is largely based in the US, and has strong core of technical and creative ability.
You mean like the knives used in vinyl cutters and Crickets? That would actually be a really good option for me as I do a LOT of large format template work.
Not to belabor this issue as it is distracting everyone from the rollout of the new Maslow but It’s not a US or China team makeup issue. It’s a lack of participation issue. Whatever happened with MM leadership in the past is inconsequential. The end result in THIS community was a fragmentation OF the community.
The existing vendors for the current Maslow built their businesses on an open source project with the understanding that any developments and improvements made would be shared with the community. What ended up happening was those vendors created their own communities and progressed things their without feeding those developments back here.
I am only speaking for myself here but going forward with the new Maslow I would like to make sure the mistakes of the past are not repeated.
The M2 push started a separate facebook page and a separate forum by MakerMade. I sold my makermade system at that point and stayed with the Maslow forum. It is not fair for this forum to moan about suppliers starting a forum and taking users and also bemoan the fact that the forum isn’t for tech support for one supplier. We can’t have it both ways. If this is the forum, then the forum provides support regardless of the supplier and the suppliers also participate in this forum. If they have their own forum, then maybe the supplier doesn’t send users here for support. If we really want an open community, I think we want to pull together, add to the central repository and help each other.
Providing the tech support for one or all of the suppliers wouldn’t be such an issue so long as they they also shared the benefits as well. I think this forum has a right to complain when their relationship with this forum has been a bit one sided in regards to the feedback into the community as a whole. As soon as they started cultivating their own communities then they created the fragmentation. I dont think its having it both ways to point this out.
I suggest that third party developer information, whether historical or current, should be at the very least in another topic and thread. For how much @bar & co. have put into this, let alone the entire open-source CNC community, I’d love to see this first run of M4 show up at its best.
I’m still very junior in this realm I have a couple potentially silly questions. Since it’s wordy, I’ll delete or move anything that isn’t worth sharing here if suggested 
First, manual and auto changing bit systems. I see some quick release chucks being sold online. Do these add a considerable amount of vertical height, meaning it would interfere with the sled running flush with the material? Would there be a way to ‘lift’ the sled on the z-axis to account for this additional chuck depth? Could the router slide into the holster with a small collar going in first to seat the router higher? And would it be a lot of work to add an auto bit changer that isn’t worth the time? I had a thought to add a cutaway in a section of the frame to the side of the work area so that you could use a quick chuck and not need any tools or hold buttons down simultaneously. For this, would you need a pause in the code and to add a ‘bit change’ position for the sled to move to and then return to the cut path?
Second I had a thought about using the sled for painting. Others mentioned markers/pens, but I wondered if the sled could move fast enough for attaching a paint sprayer or other applicator? Could make a drop-in gun attachment, anchor the belts in vertical position away from the project surface at ideal distance, and have a non-powered rail to keep the sled’s sway to a minimum for nozzle alignment.
Also, to add to the blades, markers, etc.: Glue. Maybe a way to use the z-axis to squeeze glue in very specific areas. Could even take it further to add a pressure or volume sensor to not over/underglue.
Thanks everyone!
Makerverse software in its current form is Open Source and built by Makermade in partnership with OpenWorkshop - using CNCjs. This is Open Source and available on GitHub. There will shortly be a new version of Makerverse (it will be renamed) that eliminates the login issues - that will be released by Sourcery. All future versions will be Open Source. The firmware on the M2’s DUE board was developed and licensed from an independent hardware/firmware developer. MakerMade pays royalties on the firmware and design of that hardware.
MakerMade has an “Owners Group” on Facebook for all MakerMade products - not limited to the M2, 3D Printer, or original Maslow. The original Maslow documentation in our Maslow kits points users to MakerMade Support and the Maslow forums. We do not do so for M2. Our customer support does not direct customers here. M2 users generally find themselves here in the forums. If user direction had happened in the past, it will not happen under my leadership.
To some of you who point out the need for MakerMade to participate in this forum - I appreciate that feedback and will try to align with those needs by allocating support resources here. We are excited about Bar’s new product and the Maslow 4. There is little need to discuss the intricacies of MakerMade’s past, present, and future.
This will be my last post to this thread, but please feel free to email me privately if you feel it is necessary. The spotlight should be on the Maslow 4 and this amazing creation Bar has innovated to the upright CNC market.
Thanks,
–t.j. weber
tj@makermade.com - Maker Made
tjw@sourcery.com - Sourcery