Thanks for that Rumbles. The issue as you noted is that the is no after lock fine adjustment capability. The fine adjust screw is quite small and horizontally aligned (Not that that is a real issue). This unit is available in bunnings and when I looked at it the adjustment capability looked a little flimsy.
Kind Regards Stuart
I think the Triton MOF001/TRA001 routers which have been mentioned before in this thread should be looked again. I own an TRA001 and its fine depth adjustment is driven through the complete plunge range of 60-70mm and the plunge spring is removable if wanted (keep for anti-backlash?). The only drawback is that the z motor will need to be mounted to the body of the router because the adjustment is by a rack & pinion and moves with the router (I think this is true of the Bosch GOF1600).
Here is the Schematic of the TRA001 TRA001 Schematic
You should be able to couple to parts 31.6 or 34 for the z motor.
I think plunge routers where suitable are better that fixed base units as they are designed to move up and down all the time where the fixed base routers are designed to be fixed! and you have to loosen this fixing to use them.
For my own build I wanted a quieter cutter so went for a Brushless spindle instead.
Also the Tritons are much cheaper than the Bosch!
@StephenMcG did you ever post pictures and a description of your spindle? I couldn’t find one
The problem is that 99% of plunge routers have an adjustment to limit how far
down the router can plunge, but nothing that pulls them down against this limit
(in fact, they tend to have springs that push them up away from this limit). You
would have to remove the springs in the plunge router and arrange something to
replace the springs operating in the other direction.
The loosened fixed base router is a great hack, using the tool in a way not
intended by the manufacturer.
A router lift approach is even better, but costs (in money or space) compared to
the hack of a fixed base router.
But as long as you can make it work, go for it.
That’s a good idea, it could be done with a screw-thread mechanism on these lines. The plunge base does a good job of maintaining alignment but the springs are often very stiff.
Here it is …My take on a Sled with No Bricks and Using a Spindle (Lots of Pictures):
I am currently designing and building my frame (ceiling mounted swivel down style) and should soon have a working machine. I also making a enclosure the electronics My Maslow control enclosure (with Pics):
It maybe that the Triton’s are fairly unique in that one of the plunge pillars has a rack machined into it which is engaged by a pinion in the side handle (which can disengage from the rack to allow free hand plunging) which is in turn operated by a worm gear on the fine adjuster, thus the fine adjuster mechanically moves the body down the plunge pillars for the full plunge depth.
The Triton plunge spring is removeable and could be cut down to reduce the force applied. I think that the spring is acting in correct manner to reduce backlash as it is strong enough hold the full weight of the router body and any cutting force is acting in the same direction.
That’s exactly why we should have a closer look at all of them, and not disregard them simply because they are ‘plunge routers’.
The Hitachi M12V Plunge router for instance does not have that limit.
But the disadvantage in that one is that the bit’s are less easy to change once t is mounted on the sled.
Still it seems to be a much better choice then for instance a Bosch POF1600ACE that has a very limited fine adjust of about 1cm
If someone has one of these routers then they should not be discouraged
Still if you have to buy a new router, then it would be good to look at everything else that’s available and try to find a better one.
It wouldn’t be bad to review every single router out here on the very feature that we need.
Maybe we could ask ‘that AvE dude’ to pull a few routers apart and get some dirty opinions about other quality features. There are plenty others who do good hardware reviews. But AvE is one of the few who isn’t afraid to take them apart and tell the truth of what he finds
So what about a redesign of the z axis.
I have a Robi plunge router I use for my router table.
I adjust through the fill depth range using a threaded rod that pushes up
from the floor photo attached.
I could see a design that had a plate that sites on the to of the router
with two threaded rods between plate and the sled.
You would need to attach the motor to both rods via a toothed belt.
This sort of arrangement should work for any router via a custom plate
design. All other parts should be common.
Slight changes that it would require third rod for stability but I think a
tight fitting plate would over come the need.
Sourcing the toothed belt seems to be the hardest part
What do people think. If we think it might work I can create a CAD model to
have a closer examination of the problem.
Many router bases unlatch allow the motor to come free. Changing bits is simple then.
Yes, that was meant for the Hitachi and the Bosch i mentioned, (they are both fixed to the plunge system)
Also have a look at this topic:
I hope to get many first looks in there, and once we find good candidates then make separate topic threads for those machines with all the more detailed stuff.
Thanks vertex. Agree all options should be considered but we also need someone to commit to test.
Do you want to add this to the candidate list? If so who would be willing to test it in AUS as this is the region we are having issues in so we really need to test locally.
The bosh has both options fixed and plunge. I am testing the fixed when I get it as did not want the extra expense of having to purchase the plunge base as well. Someone else is welcome to test the Bosch plunge base.
I think we should shake some youtube reviewers and see what falls out…
Those guys have all the machines… and only have them on the shelf to show off… So why not ask them to take them apart.
There are so many machines out there it’s a nightmare to figure out the differences, and some brands have several revisions of the same machine. Take for instance the Hitachi M12V
There is the rather old looking M12V then several revisions, and now they have given it a ‘transformer’ makeover… But it still goes by the name M12V.
And these days all seems to be moving to brushless. And on top of that having different base options. All of that comes with a lot of marketing bullshit sauce on top.
We must learn to become deaf dumb and blind to all that marketing crap and get x-ray vision on all the adjustment knob differences.
A candidate list… Maybe we should make one big spreadsheet…
base type: Fixed, Plunge, Trim.
motor type: Brushed, brushless
motor power: Voltage, Amps, Watts
If you, or anyone else, find a router that looks usable then maybe just make a specific topic for that machine. And try to find as many people as possible who have access to that type of machine to collect as much data as possible. Don’t underestimate how difficult it is to collect specific data.
This is why I started “the big router lift topic” to try to smoke out eventual candidates.
First put anything that remotely looks usable in the spotlight. Then filter out the best ones and give those some extra attention…
But that takes time… And a lot of attention.
So this looks like an ideal task for us as community.
Maybe there is someone who repairs these kinds of machines? Or someone who has access to older machines that are no longer used?
@Gero and @walter have Bosch fixed base routers, as well as my self, but I have not build the machine yet due to our electrician being slow connecting power in our shed (he promised it would be done before Christmas)… Walter and my self sourced the fix base from Amazon, and brought the router locally (the 1600CE) Its a bit tight fitting, with the clamp shut, and a bit wiggly with it open.
There’s a lot of background on the old forums (and some on this one) around the Bosch GOF 1600 in combination with MRF01 Fixed Base Router.
Here are the links:
- Beginning of discussion about Z-axis issues - very long intermittent thread - click the speech bubbles to expand
- [Follow up thread}(http://www.maslowcnc.com/oldforums/#!/hardware-issues:bosch-gof-1600-ce-z-axisde)
- New Forum discussion of Bosch GOF 1600 - @Josh_G gets the fixed base working, but with american model of Bosch router, I believe
In short, still not clear if Bosch GOF 1600 with MRF01 Fixed Base is working set up. I haven’t gotten back to tweaking the fixed base yet to have another go.
I can say it is definitely an expensive option though! I would probably experiment with a custom z-axis rig and a trim router if I was starting again.
Awesome recommendation Vertex.
Do you have any contacts for youtube reviewers? If so let me know and I will chase. For the Australian Case I think this is the thread to create the list in all we need to do is have a moderator accept candidate units from the community, then add them by editing their list which is available for download.
I am happy to do this or someone can put their hand up. When submitting a candidate machine as you stated we need an agreed data template which can be kept in the attached spreadsheet for others to download. We also still need someone commit to test the unit if we cannot get the reviewers on board otherwise it will go nowhere.
Candidate Router Template
Base Type: [Fixed, Plunge]
Motor Type: [Brushed,Brushless]
Fine adjustment type: [Locked adjustment, After Lock Adjustment]
Fine Adjustment Orientation [Vertical, Horizontal]
Fine Adjustment Travel: [mm]
Rated Power: [ Power [W], Voltage [V], Current [A] ]
Variable Speed Adjustment: [yes,no]
Dust Extraction: [Yes, No]
Available Collet Sizes: [inch/mm]
Router table mounting [Yes, No] - Important as if yes easy to screw to sled
Price: [$ Ex GST]
Validated by [List]
In parallel I will still test the unit I have committed to as currently I have a system sitting idle and want to progress.
Good call Stephen - at a glance the Triton MOF001 does appear to be a good candidate. That and at the sale price of $399, it takes the sting out of purchasing another router just for Z-Axis functionality…
Rumbles is that price inc or EX GST?
I have been able to find all the suppliers of the Bosch GOF 1600 CE (Plunge Base version) now which include Bunnings, Total Tools, Blackwoods Express, Mitre 10.
Best price so far $499 Inc GST but have asked bunnings to price beat this so hopefully get it a little cheaper.
Was notified by Bosch today that you can only purchase the GOF 1600 CE with plunge base currently in australia and that the combo kit is not available.
Looks like we now have two good candidates. Is anyone going to purchase the Triton and test it?
Updated Edit - Bunnings matched and beat the price listed above to $449.10 In GST so I am now ready to rock. Lead time is two weeks but that is ok.
Given I have not been able to get the Z Axis Kit I think I will try and source another motor in the mean time and get it going.