Bottom left/right corner issue

1

Has anyone tried just making their maslow longer? Like if the middle portion is fine, couldn’t we in theory just make the chains longer, the frame wider and thus the middle portion would be wider as well?

or does the mk2 solve this?

If we’re all trying to cut 8f sheets; how much space is actually lost in the bottom left/right corners? if its 2f on each side (just throwing numbers out there) could we not solve this by adding an additional 2f to each side? So the regular 10f could be 14f and that would give us a wider middle zone in theory?

Or am I missing something about chain slack over that distance?

Been thinking about buying one of these but my biggest concern is that I need to cut 8f panels and this includes the bottom left/right…

How are people working around this? Not all my projects can be cut in half and even the action of cutting it in half accurately requires equipment, space & measurements that I’m trying to make obsolete by having this cnc.

2

@zoilus This is why people are going with the 12’ top beam and longer chains. That has solved the issue for the most part that everyone was having with cutting in the lower corners accurately. There is much discussion on the forum here about this. So ultimately, to answer your question, yes, making the frame a little bit wider will help that issue, but you would only need to go a foot on each side, and really, just the top beam, needs to be extended to push the motors out and change the angle for the corners.

As for cutting the panels, what specifically are you cutting? I’m just curious. I only have a 10’ top beam, and I was able to cut these out on it. They are about 3ft high, and 8ft long:

IMG_0798
IMG_07981920×685 290 KB

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search 12’ beam. the m2 does not fix this out of the box because the frame connections they supply won’t allow the beam to be lifted up, without messing up the chain height. A higher beam is also helpful when going wider.

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complex cabinets mainly is what I’d be building, in particular curved supports that would be hard to do by hand.

I use bb grade baltic birch so screwing up a cut or two can be rather expensive, so I’d like to be able to just print out a 4x8f sheet and then go straight to assembly, that is the whole reason to get a cnc to me.

Those panels you made are just the top cuts than? are those dadu lines across or is that paint? Its cool to know it can cut across, but really I need to know if I can get a straight cut from top to bottom near that corner, or like possibly cutting a 2fx2f or 1fx5inch cuts off the bottom corners.

Not doing anything complex like engraving, but the cut would need to be totally flat for butt joints or dadu joints to work properly.

5

Those panels are cut on the machine…all sides. I used foam insulation sheets with a hard board backer, and though they were all stated to be 4x8, they were a bit longer, so I was cutting up the sides and seemed pretty straight to me. All the outside edges were through cuts on the machine.

As for the details, it was also all cut on the machine. the shields were pockets using a 1/4 straight bit, and the detail lines through the center were cut with the same straight bit. It was painted after assembly/attached to carts. I don’t have a picture on this pc at work to show the final product, but can upload one later if wanted.

In my opinion, as long as you take the time to get the machine set up and tuned the right way, it shouldn’t have any issues. For added measure, I would go with the recommended (by much more seasoned users of the machine than I)12’ beam and longer chains, and as @orob has stated, get that beam a little higher would probably assist in getting the results you are looking for. I know how expensive ply can be, and I wouldn’t want to have any costly mistakes either.

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6

it’s not a hard cutoff (“it doesn’t work when you get X in from the edge”), it’s
a gradual reduction in the force available to move the sled out towards the edge
the closer to vertical the chain gets.

so the slicker the sled is (the easier it is to move), and the slower you move,
the closer to the corner you can get without a problem.

Yes, a lot of people have gone with a 12’ top beam and 13’ chains and report
much better results in the bottom corners.

David Lang

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7

test on cheap wood. There are a lot of variables, including how good your
calibration is (the errors on the maslow manifest in curves, which are very
consistant, so if you find that it’s not cutting straight, you can tweak the
lines to correct for it)

the problems in the bottom corners would manifest in the sled not moving towards
the outside, so if you can adjust your cut direction so that you aren’t trying
to cut that way, you will have a better chance of success.

David Lang

8

Awesome work and thanks for clarifying.

That line across looks fairly straight to me; you have the og maslow or the m2? is the metal made one a og maslow or a m2?

I’ll be honest I’m still kinda confused what the double price tag difference is on the m2 aside of it being “better”… from my untrained eye it looks to be the exact same chains with motors and sled… is the upgrade mainly the plunge/depth control or?

Do you have the 12’ beam and the 13’ chains? Is there a kit that comes with 13’? Seems like chains are a good chunk of the kit so seems silly to buy OG chains when I’m going to want the 13’ from the sounds of it.

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I’ll be honest I’m still kinda confused what the double price tag difference
is on the m2 aside of it being “better”… from my untrained eye it looks to be
the exact same chains with motors and sled… is the upgrade mainly the
plunge/depth control or?

first off, I am a third party, I have no inside knowledge

Bar sold the original maslow pretty much at cost, he would lose money when he
had to replace compnents for people. Support was done entirely here with no
funding (I’d bet he’s paying for the hosting out of pocket at this point). His
focus was on getting the machine out.

The M2 folks are looking to not lose money, and possibly make a little to cover
some of their time (you know, make it a viable business that can be maintained
over time)

They have made some choices that increase expenses whils simplifying things, and
opted for a different controller board that uses different software (which they
have to develop and maintain, which takes time and/or money)

The design is open, so if you think they are overcharging, you can put together
your own kit and sell it at a price to undercut them (and anyone wanting to put
together a machine or kit from scratch will get a lot of help from the
community, no matter what price they end up deciding to sell it for)

Do you have the 12’ beam and the 13’ chains? Is there a kit that comes with
13’? Seems like chains are a good chunk of the kit so seems silly to buy OG
chains when I’m going to want the 13’ from the sounds of it.

you can buy chain from ebay or similar. I am not aware of any kit that sells the
longer chain. you don’t have to replace the entire chain, just get a few feet of
extra chain and master links to join them.

David Lang

10

So in your opinion the og maslow and the m2 maslow are the same 2 chain with sled design?

Like they both use that slide ring thing and a sled, both have two chains… so really the difference comes down to software?

I took a better look at it and the m2 seems to have an additional metal rig to control how deep it goes.

Personally I’m leaning towards grabbing the metal maslow cuz it comes with a refurbished router that is made to work with the kit, its also the cheapest despite having a router that the more expensive maker made doesnt have.

11

they are the same 2 chain design, the software and controller are different, and
the Z axis is different (but as others posted, look at the meticulous Z axis
design for how to do it yourself)

accuracy will be pretty much the same.

David Lang

12

I will second what @dlang has stated. He is one of the ones that has been here from the beginning and has helped me (and many others) in getting our rigs built and then up and running.

Like him, I am a third party, but what I know I will give you: with the M2, it is a different controller board (the Arduino Due) that they implemented. You are also relegated to use Makerverse only as the controlling software. The Classic Maslow (sold by various vendors - Makermade, Metal Maslow, East Bay) Uses the Mega 2650 (I think that is the right number) as the control board, and you can use GroundControl (original and no longer supported), WebControl (made to replace GroundControl), or Makerverse as your controlling software. In the CNC world, there are many others (e.g. CNC.js and Mach3) but I do not know if those will work in controlling the Maslow. That will be up to you to figure out what works best for you. I personally like WebControl and the ease of use it provides me, plus there is a way you can set it up on a Raspberry Pi and then use a tablet or phone or another PC that has internet to access it and control the machine.

The other difference is the Z-axis, but with the Classic, you are not relegated to the original Z-set up. I have run the OG Z-axis (which worked, but was a bit on the slow side), and then upgraded myself to the Meticulous-Z (you can search for it here on the forums and get the BOM and all you need to make it yourself), which gives me better control and speed on the Z-axis and my depth of cut. There are also a few other different types of Z-Axis modifications here on the forums as well, so you have plenty of options to choose from.

I only have the original 10’ beam, but as @dlang stated, it all depends on your calibration/tuning, and then working to “assist” the machine to counter it’s weaknesses. You can make it work as is, but the 12’ may make it a little bit easier. Again, that will all be up to you and what you want. There are many different avenues that you can get the materials that you would need to modify/update what you choose, and the support on here is pretty vast when it comes to troubleshooting or even just running an idea through. I have no complaints with my purchase and keep looking for different ideas that I can work to get cut on the Maslow.

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13

So if I buy for example the maker made maslow version 1 or the metal maslow; what else is required?

  1. I would need the wood frame obviously.
  2. I would need extension chains

Is this is? cuz if the m2 upgrade is mainly the Z and I can do that diy myself otherwise than I think saving myself half the cost is worth it since it honestly doesnt matter how slow this thing is, it only matters how accurate it is.

I’d be perfectly happy with being able to do what I read around at 30+ inch per min, honestly if it could complete a 4x8 sheet in a hour I would be pretty stoked about that cuz it would take me alot longer than that to do all the measurements and cuts manually.

So that makes me wonder if it matters if I grab the maker made or metal maslow version, the metal maslow claims to have faster motors but from what I’m reading going slower gives better accuracy so this isn’t even needed?

I’d like to fully know what I’m getting myself into before I drop nearly 800 canadian on the OG model, cuz the m2 model would be nearly 2 grand by the time it got here… would be good to know how what things need to be added or replaced on the og model cost wise…

Kinda leaning towards the metal maslow cuz it comes with a router that its made to be used with and I like the idea of the metal weight for the sled instead of straps and bricks… but I guess at the end of the day it doesnt matter as long as the sled is slick and weighted…

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In my opinion, if you go with the Metal Maslow, then yes, all you’d need would be the wood for the frame and the extension chains. The last I looked (which was a while ago) I think he also sells the longer chains, so you may be able to reach out to @Metalmaslow on here and see if he can sub in the longer chains if that is the route you are looking to go. I can’t guarantee that, just a thought for you to consider. Oh…you’ll also need the bits as well, but I am sure you were tracking that.

The last thing you’ll need is a PC to drive the machine…I’m with you on the money thing, and with the Metal Maslow, it should come with the updated Z-axis. If you get the Classic, then you’ll need to do the update yourself.

As far as the faster motors, you can always set up your process to have the machine move faster at the Rapids (the movement across the work piece that is not cutting) and then have your Feed Rate (movement across the material when you are cutting) adjusted down to what is best for the material you are cutting.

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Cool I think I might go this direction than.

I’m seeing talk of “counter weights” but on other models I’m seeing springs? do I need to use milk jugs or 2l bottles, or is there a spring way to do this?

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That, my friend, would solely be up to you. I have looked to run counterweights, but was having issues with the design/route of that set up. I found a post here somewhere that had a listing for Home Depot and a spring they sell that is very similar to the one used on the M2. I picked one up and haven’t had any issues.

In the reading here, there are a few that are for counterweights, and some that go with the spring. I think the science and data point that the “bungee” and the spring ends up providing more tension when not needed, and not as much tension when it is needed. I can’t really speak to that point. Again, I have the spring (if I can find the link again, I’ll post it) and my machine is running just fine. Others have the counterweights and theirs works just fine as well. That would be in the category of “choose your own adventure!!” If you go counterweights, whatever you want to use for weight is up to you. I’ve seen the milk jug or 2L bottles to actual dumbbells and smaller “plate” weights. Again, whatever you have that is available to you that you can come up with should work. That is the neatest thing about this rig, for most things, if you can come up with something different or out of the box because it is what you have laying around, it would most likely work.

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found the post with the link for the spring:
https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/m2-upgrade-spring-specs/14179/2?u=c00nphrog

I got this one and it is holding up pretty good.

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No, these will not. They assume that the world of CNC is stepper driven.

I wish that M2’s software was more discussed, they are using a fork of grbl, and
it would be really good to get the changes merged upstream and use that instead
of the original firmware for all the maslows, but if their software is being
discussed/developed anywhere public, I’ve missed it.

Klipper has support for cable-driven machines, but not for DC motors (at least,
not yet). That would be a fantasic base to work from if anyone has time to work
on it.

David Lang

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So if I buy for example the maker made maslow version 1 or the metal maslow; what else is required?

  1. I would need the wood frame obviously.
  2. I would need extension chains

Is this is? cuz if the m2 upgrade is mainly the Z and I can do that diy myself
otherwise than I think saving myself half the cost is worth it since it
honestly doesnt matter how slow this thing is, it only matters how accurate it
is.

accuracy vs precision

The maslows are all very precise, they will repeat the exact same cut with very
good accuracy (as long as the sled doesn’t stick, which is the issue in the
bottom corners)

accuracy is that the cuts that the maslow makes are all straight and where you
expect them to be based on the g-code. This is not as good, there are a LOT of
sources of possible error (look up the thread ‘sources of error’) and many of
them are not addressed in any current firmware. That said, most of them are
small enough that people don’t notice them, but it is going to depend on how
accurate you need it to be. The errors are not consistant across the workspace,
so if you get it dialed in in the center, and then move to a different part of
the workspace, the errors will be different. The holey calibration (in
webcontrol) seems to be the best option (excluding the M2 that I don’t know
about)

So that makes me wonder if it matters if I grab the maker made or metal maslow
version, the metal maslow claims to have faster motors but from what I’m
reading going slower gives better accuracy so this isn’t even needed?

it’s not better accuracy everywhere, but it can affect you

I’d like to fully know what I’m getting myself into before I drop nearly 800
canadian on the OG model, cuz the m2 model would be nearly 2 grand by the time
it got here… would be good to know how what things need to be added or
replaced on the og model cost wise…

The Z axis is the weak link of the original maslow, you will want to improve
that. going with a wider top beam is good (and a little higher from the
workpiece is good), and finally, when you get really close to the edges and
bottom, you will want to add skirts to support the sled and keep it from
tipping off the edge (most important at the bottom) but other than that, they
work well.

You will want to check in before you mount the top beam and after you build the
sled so that you can mount the top beam at the right distance out from the
workpiece. The frame instructions end up putting it a bit too far out, which you
can compensate for by putting a spacer behind your workpiece.

Kinda leaning towards the metal maslow cuz it comes with a router that its
made to be used with and I like the idea of the metal weight for the sled
instead of straps and bricks… but I guess at the end of the day it doesnt
matter as long as the sled is slick and weighted…

weights you can source locally rather than having to pay for them to be shipped
internationally :slight_smile:

David Lang

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springs provide the most tension when you need the least, and the least tension
when you need the most

see https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/weights-for-chain-tension/ for the simple
solution I did (with milk jugs, metal, whatever you can hang that’s 4-6 pounds
for a 10’ top beam, you can go up to 10-12 pounds with a 12’ top beam)

here’s the thread on the sources of error
https://forums.maslowcnc.com/t/list-of-sources-of-error/

David Lang
P.S. I read and respond to the forums via e-mail, which is why I respond to
older messages first as I see them