Devastating results after so...much...work

Eric Fisher wrote:

My setup uses 1" rigid foam insulation as spoil board, sitting on the concrete
floor of my shop. Anchor points are threaded inserts in the floor, with 12’ x
10’ “frame size”. Configuration was done with the M4 on the stock I was going
to cut on top of the spoil board.

did you adjust your z offset values to match your thick spiloard?

the fact that you have belts catching on corners is going to be an issue

using long bolts by themselves to raise the anchors doesn’t work (the bolts have
too much flex), but if you cut a series of plywood washers a few inches in
diameter and glue them together to make a solid stack, then have a nut on top of
them to pull tight against the floor it can work well.

David Lang

I have not changed the z-offset values. To be honest, I’m a little confused because I think the setup instructions say that those values usually don’t need to be changed?

If my M4 is horizontal on the concrete floor with 1" of rigid foam (and when I’m cutting pieces smaller than a whole sheet of plywood, 1/2" of plywood spoil board on top of the foam) what do the z-offset values need to be? Is it something that I can easily measure? Should I change the values each project depending on the height of my spoil board(s)? If I use plywood “washers” for the anchors do they also need to change if the spoil board height changes?

I’m thinking that the foam board is overkill, and I only need to use the sheet of 1/2" plywood as my spoil board. A couple of times when I first started using the machine and I was still working out how to set the z-axis I cut thru the plywood spoil board which is why I started using the foam. Since then I’ve made a z-axis probe and I’m a little more confident that I won’t screw up the plunge depth.

Eric Fisher wrote:

I have not changed the z-offset values. To be honest, I’m a little confused
because I think the setup instructions say that those values usually don’t
need to be changed?

normally they don’t, but they assume that you have just a 3/4 sheet of material
for your spoilboard, if you differ a little from this it’s ok, but you are
double the thickness

If my M4 is horizontal on the concrete floor with 1" of rigid foam (and when
I’m cutting pieces smaller than a whole sheet of plywood, 1/2" of plywood
spoil board on top of the foam) what do the z-offset values need to be? Is it
something that I can easily measure? Should I change the values each project
depending on the height of my spoil board(s)? If I use plywood “washers” for
the anchors do they also need to change if the spoil board height changes?

the steeper the angle of the belts, the more important the Z offset values are.

the z offset is the difference in height between the belt at the anchor and the
belt at the arm (a different offset for each arm since they are different
heights.

being off a few mm isn’t a big deal, so just use a tape measure from the floor
at the anchor, then put the sled next to the edge of your spoilboard area and
measure the height there.

If you raise the anchors to where the belts are near flat when the router is all
the way down, you don’t need to change anything for a difference of an inch or
so.

to go into the math.

the default for the top arm is ~100mm, if you are at the closest corner, say
your belt length is 600mm, your effective belt length is sqrt(600^2-100^2) =
591.6mm the maslow takes this into account

if you are off by 20mm, this is sqrt(600^2-120^2)=587.8mm so your belts are
effectively 4mm shorter than the maslow thinks they are.

if the anchors are near the same height, say 20mm (and z offset is set
correctly) the effective belt length is sqrt(600^2-20^2)=599.7mm and the maslow
takes this into account.

if you are now off 20mm, then the math is sqrt(600^2-40^2)=598.6 an error of
only 1mm shorter than the maslow thinks they are.

I’m actually more worried about the belts catching and becoming dramtically
shorter in effective length than about the math error (which is why I suggest
raising the anchors)

I’m thinking that the foam board is overkill, and I only need to use the sheet
of 1/2" plywood as my spoil board. A couple of times when I first started
using the machine and I was still working out how to set the z-axis I cut thru
the plywood spoil board which is why I started using the foam. Since then I’ve
made a z-axis probe and I’m a little more confident that I won’t screw up the
plunge depth.

it probably is, but it’s cheap insurance against digging your bits into the
concrete.

David Lang

Thanks for the detailed reply @dlang .

Forgive me I’m still a little confused…I set the sled on top of the spoil board(s) and my work stock at the corner nearest the anchor I am measuring. Do I need a straight edge and a tape measure so I can find the vertical distance above the anchor?

Maybe I’m overthinking it? Let’s assume that I have not yet made plywood “washers” to raise up my anchor points and that they are basically touching the ground. If that is the case, can’t I just add the height of my spoil board(s) and work stock to the default z-offset?

Eric Fisher wrote:

Forgive me I’m still a little confused…I set the sled on top of the spoil
board(s) and my work stock at the corner nearest the anchor I am measuring. Do
I need a straight edge and a tape measure so I can find the vertical
distance above the anchor?

measure the belt to the floor at the anchor (top or bottom doesn’t matter, just
be consistant.

measure the belt to the floor at the arm (same top or bottom that you used at
the anchor)

subtract the distance at the anchor from the distance at the arm.

unfortunantly, the anchor is a bit thinner than the arm, so you have to actually
measure the belt, not just the surface (@bar, I know this saves a smidge of
plastic, but I’m not sure the complication is worth it for those who have to
measure this)

Maybe I’m overthinking it? Let’s assume that I have not yet made plywood
“washers” to raise up my anchor points and that they are basically touching
the ground. If that is the case, can’t I just add the height of my spoil
board(s) and work stock to the default z-offset?

subtract the default 3/4 spoilboard and 3/4 stock and you are probably ‘close
enough’

as I said, the biggest reason I suggest raising the anchors is to make sure the
belts aren’t going to catch/rub on anything that would cause them to no longer
be straignt.

David Lang

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I had a little time to take my machine apart and see if I could figure out what was potentially causing the problem with one of my arms. When I disassembled the arm in question I didn’t find anything obvious- everything was intact and seemed to be where it should be.

Strangely, while removing the arms a set screw fell out from somewhere and landed on my workbench. Are there any set screws other than one on each motor drive shaft? The set screw was still in place on the arm I disassembled so I’m assuming that it fell out of one of the other arms. Unfortunately, I didn’t have enough time to disassemble all four arms, so I quickly reassembled the machine and tested z-axis movement, and multiple extend/retract cycles before running out of time.

When I started the project the retract force was set to 900. After taking the machine apart and reassembling, one of the arms sill won’t retract with a force of less than 1050. Is there any advantage to using a lower force? Is it worth spending more time to try and figure out why this one arm needs more force, or should I be happy with using a higher force like 1200?

When disassembling the machine I also discovered a crack where the nut was captured in one of the uprights. A piece of the upright broke off when taking the machine apart. During re-assembly I was in a bit of a hurry and I over-tightened the nut causing the lower clamp to crack :man_facepalming:

@bar are spare parts available for the upright and lower clamp? Thanks for the help!

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Yup, both are available on our site. I will send you a discount code by DM

Thanks Bar!

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They tend to do that - I’d recommend 3D printing some alternatives, there’s a few designs here in the forums now

@Bhambrew any updates on this? Also the set screw might have been floating around in the machine for a bit and only recently jammed something up to cause the errors. I know my machine had an extra nut stuck in one the honeycombs I didn’t even notice from assembly.

I am also cutting on a concrete floor and I think I have made the same mistake you have of not understanding what the z offset means.

I think I need to re-calibrate while paying attention to it. Thanks @dlang for the possible error calculations and the method of measuring. It sounds like making the washers you described (each at a different height to match the spoilboad + height of arm on machine) would be a nice way to gain some accuracy. I will see if I can do this.today.

Unfortunately I have been out of town for work and not able to make any cuts. I did get some replacement parts from Bar, and hope to get everything fixed up in the next couple of days. As soon as I have a chance to make some cuts I will post an update.

After further investigation I think that part of my problem was not having my work piece secured well enough. I only had a little non-skid material between my stock and the spoil board, and between the spoil board and the concrete floor. This has worked well for other projects, but in this case I think the depth and speed of the cuts may have moved the stock during cutting. I’m thinking about making a vertical frame so I can screw the spoil board and stock to the frame and eliminate the possibility of the stock moving during the cut.

@Bhambrew Any updates on this? I just purchased one and after seeing your posts I’m probably going to end up returning it. Have you been able to sort it out? From the looks of those cuts it seems like it is not possible to make a speaker with this cnc.

Hey Lukas I hope this thread doesn’t discourage you. If you read all the way through you will see that I posted some photos from a couple projects where I had great success. In fact, if you search my posts you will see one of the first projects I completed was cutting the baffles for a pair of speakers that I use in the shop every day.

To be completely honest I just ran out of patients for all of the messing around with firmware updates, calibrations and crawling around on my shop floor doing the retract/extend dance. The M4 is a great machine, and many people here on the forums have demonstrated that you can achieve impressive results with this tool. When I first got the M4 I was a complete n00b with CNC woodworking and trying to figure it our has taught me so many new things. However, due to demands of work and home life I just didn’t have the time needed to really dial things in and started to lose interest. I still have my Maslow, but lately I’ve been focused on learning 3D printing and continuing to sharpen my skills with CAD and CAM software. I doubt I would be of much help to you…but there are many dedicated and generous people here in the forums that are WAY smarter than me who can help you find success with the Maslow. Good Luck!

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