Yes, I was actually already modifying the triangles in the way you suggested.
I think you have good suggestions. I can try tonight to drill from both sides. With an oversized bit, this just might work.
I do think a drill guide would also be an option. I tried using a guide I made by using my drill press to drill through the flat side of a 2x4 block last night, however, when I tried it, it actually made things worse because it wasnāt āclampedā down to the surface (it spun and got stuck on the bit). My back was aching bad at this point so I called it a night. I think a guide that wrapped around the sides (to center-align the hole and stay in place) might work much betterā¦ especially if you do 70% or so from both sides. Iāll try to make one tonight to test.
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I canāt readily measure the squareness my build of @barās design since I didnāt spend alot of energy trying to make sure the holes in the blocks and the ātop beamā were centered.
Iāll try again tonight using @matmaxgedsā ādouble sided drillingā technique. Iāll also redrill the hole in the top beam so that its the same distance from edge as the bolt is from the leg and Iāll spin the spacers so that they donāt interfere with the square.
It will be near 20 hours of cure time on @dlangās design glue when i get back out there so Iāll see if I can move it at all. Iāll also pull the screws to see how well it holds.
I think that both designs could benefit from the use of a guide or jig. For @barās something to help center the bit the right distance from the end of the piece. For @dlangās something to keep the pieces square while screwing. Hereās something I sketched in sketchup made from pieces of 2x4. If weāve spent so much effort on this particular effort/decision because itās critical, my opinion is to make it fool proof and include a guide/jig in the kit.
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Jigs are always awesome, but that is a lot to include in the kit, both in terms of effort to create and fabricate them and in space and weight for shipping.
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I agree, but you could ship the critical parts and let the builder construct it with the scraps left over.
The key for the @bar guide is the piece with the hole in it and for @dlang jig, I would do one of the cross pieces at a perfect 90. The other pieces can just be added by the builderā¦ or use clampsā¦
For the @bar guide, you can cut the legs with the guide, unscrew it and rearrange the pieces to make a template for the top beam holes as well.
And Iāll point out that in reality, the drilled holes or the screwed in boards donāt have to be perfectā¦ they just have to be the same. So if the same error occurs on both legs/supports, itās not a problem. (Correct?)
I posit that you could even have the builder construct the guide/jig in its entirety and end up with acceptable results.
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@dlang, on step 17, are we drilling through two 2x4ās on edge and is this being done with it up in the air?
- prepare the top beam
clamp the 10" top beam supports with the non-factory end flush to the top of the legs on the outside of the front legs
center the top beam over the end of the top beam supports
drill through the top beam for bolts to the supports
drill pilot holes in the supports if you are using lag bolts
remove the top beam and unclamp the top beam supports
Hi - thinking about the jigs - given that most people building the Maslow will have a router, it wouldnāt be that hard to make a āUā shape jig by routing out a roughly 2 inch wide slot (precise depth or angle not important) in a piece of 2*4 in order to hold it in place, for people who donāt have clamps, or are using a short piece of scrap, or donāt want to nail/screw it temporarily. That might be easier than making a 3 piece jig and could help both designs currently being suggested.
Can you describe how the jig would be used for both designs? It would help me understand what you are proposing.
Bear in mind that the intent of the stock frame is to provide an entry level frame for people who have likely only bought the router to make the Maslow. People who have a router as a part of their tools likely will only use the stock frame design as a suggestion or temporary frame until they design and build something that fits their needs.
Making an accurate jig might be daunting for a beginning woodworker.
Please note, I am not suggesting that providing or having the user make a jig is a bad idea. I am just playing devilās advocate to try and keep the stock frame as simple as possible.
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Iāve never used a router to actually route anything by hand. Itās only been used when attached to Maslowās chains. If I had a router table, I think it would be easy to notch out a 2x4.
I donāt think the jigs Iāve described are beyond basic skills. I think the key to a good jig for this project is that it produces two identical results that are reasonably straight and not, necessarily, that it produces precise results.
the major forces are the two motors pulling against each other, the down force
is only the weight of the sled, everything else is in line with the beam
No disagreement here. Just trying to help us stick to the K.I.S.S. method
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I thought I had changed it so that the prepare the beam was done on the ground
before standing the machine up
it is drilling through the long dimension of the beam, but since the only
purpose is to hold the beam down, it doesnāt matter if they arenāt straight (and
you donāt need a large bolt or slop for alignment
Iāll go over the instructions again around lunch time to double check this.
for the ādlang jointā, you donāt really need a jig, just a run-of-the mill
square.
Picking up a speed square would be a good idea and help people cut good right
angles on the 2x4 sticks anyway (especially if using a circular saw)
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check the images for the one labeled āprepare the top beamā, it shoudl be well
before step 17 (something more like step 12)
drilling straight to create a jig to help you drill straight is a
chicken-and-egg problem. If you can drill straight you donāt need the jig, if
you have trouble, the jig is going to be crooked
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I had an issue with my square getting affected by the radiusāed edge of the 2x4s. it slide under the edge of the support arm and I wasnāt confident how well that was straight. I suggested the jig to make sure the support arm doesnāt slip when you screw it in.
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You did change it. Just checked. But you do need to be sure nothing moves as you drillā¦ those holes need to line up on both sides (i.e., both legs)
I understand the point (and why I suggested originally the block with a hole could be included in the kit) but I wonder if each leg is off by the same amount, would it matter.
So the real question should be what level of tolerance do we have between the angle of the top beam and the angle of the leg. If the leg is at 10.0 degrees, must the top beam be at 10.0 or is 11 ok? 12? whatās our tolerance.
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