1.19, 1.20 firmware extending belts forever on configuration?

I rebuilt my anchor points to make them stiffer, and I’ve been trying and failing to recalibrate. When I initially extend and tighten belts, it tells me I have invalid geometry with belts too short, and then when I try to do Extend All and then Find Anchor Positions, it initially retracts, tells me I have invalid geometry (apparently based on expected Z positions) and then starts slowly extending the belts. Forever until I turn the Maslow off.

Do I have to measure the Z positions more accurately (my stiffening thing raised them up by about 75mm)? Or could it be something about the ancient tablet and browser I’m using in the shop? I noticed that the interface becomes pretty much nonresponsive while the extending is going on (which might make sense if the browser is just running way more calculation than it can handle). If I have to bring a real laptop in to calibrate, that would be OK, but I really don’t want to sacrifice my daily laptop to the dust of regular operations…

Any thoughts?

rp1007 wrote:

I rebuilt my anchor points to make them stiffer, and I’ve been trying and failing to recalibrate. When I initially extend and tighten belts, it tells me I have invalid geometry with belts too short, and then when I try to do Extend All and then Find Anchor Positions, it initially retracts, tells me I have invalid geometry (apparently based on expected Z positions) and then starts slowly extending the belts. Forever until I turn the Maslow off.

Do I have to measure the Z positions more accurately (my stiffening thing raised them up by about 75mm)? Or could it be something about the ancient tablet and browser I’m using in the shop? I noticed that the interface becomes pretty much nonresponsive while the extending is going on (which might make sense if the browser is just running way more calculation than it can handle). If I have to bring a real laptop in to calibrate, that would be OK, but I really don’t want to sacrifice my daily laptop to the dust of regular operations…

you have two very different issues here, one that is easy to fix, the other is
showing a problem we have run into a few times but never been able to debug. If
you can reproduce it, it would be fantastic if you can hold off on getting the
machine fully operational to help us debug it.

the hard to debug issue is whatever is happening that causes the belts to feed
out slowly until you power off.

please find a long usb cable and connect to the maslow (you can use any terminal
software, or you can use the fluidterm program that comes packaged with each of
the firmware upgrade zip packages

connect to the maslow with the terminal program and you should see some things
happening (if you hit enter, you should get a ok back, if you type $test you
should get test, if you hit $cmd you should get a list of commands) we don’t
need you to run any commands, just leave it connecting and capturing the logs
while you do whatever it is that causes it to go into the slow-extend mode, then
upload what it shows.

If you need to get the machine operational, or for any other reason don’t want
to take the time for the debugging, yes, raising the anchors will make a big
difference and the machine needs to be told about this.

did you raise them all the same amount? or are you using something like my
bolt-down anchors that raise them different amounts for each arm?

if you raise them the same amount, you can account for this in the
spoilboard/wasteboard thickness setting. this setting is the distance from where
the anchors are (bottom surface of the belt end extensions) to where the top of
the spoilboard is (aka the bottom of the sled when doing ‘find anchors’) a
positive number means the spoilboard is higher than the anchors, a negative
number says it is lower than the anchors.

If they are at different heights, then you need to set the Z offsets
individually. go to the fluidnc tab, select the right bubble, then scroll down
to find the anchor positions (tlx, tly, tlz etc) and set the z values. This is
the distance down from where the bottom of the belt end extensions are on the
arms when fully retracted, and where they are at the anchor

feel free to ask if I am not clear on anything.

once this is all set

disconnect the belts, retract all, run the Z all the way down and hit the set Z
stop button (not the same as set z home), then extend all to feed them out,
connect to the anchors and hit find anchors

David Lang

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Do you have a vertical or horizontal layout? If vertical is the power plug for the control board pointing down? It should be. Can you put a copy of your serial log here.

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horizontal, and the machine is oriented the same way it was when it was working before I rebuilt the anchor points.

Maslow-serial(1).log (84.9 KB)

I think this is the important part for why it went bad As soon s it gives itself a NaN it just sits there spooling out the belts:

Find Anchors
[MSG:INFO: Requesting state change from Belts Extended to Finding Anchor]
[G92:0.000,0.000,58.190,0.000,0.000]
[MSG:INFO: Machine Position found as X: 10.968 Y: 23.588]
[MSG:INFO: Setting motor positions from hardware readings:]
[MSG:INFO: TL: 814.482 TR: 818.648 BL: 822.524 BR: 824.381]
[MSG:INFO: Succeeded]
[MSG:INFO: Detected HORIZONTAL orientation (extension <= 35.000 mm)]
[MSG:INFO: Orientation set to: HORIZONTAL (Maslow_vertical=false)]
[MSG:ERR: Invalid geometry: belt length 23.974 too short for Z height 100.000]
[MSG:ERR: Invalid geometry: belt length 32.616 too short for Z height 56.000]
[MSG:ERR: Invalid geometry: belt length -14.129 too short for Z height 78.000]
[MSG:ERR: Invalid geometry: belt length 24.070 too short for Z height 100.000]
[MSG:ERR: Invalid geometry: belt length 32.605 too short for Z height 56.000]
[MSG:ERR: Invalid geometry: belt length -14.054 too short for Z height 78.000]
[MSG:ERR: Invalid geometry: belt length 24.081 too short for Z height 100.000]
[MSG:ERR: Invalid geometry: belt length 32.627 too short for Z height 56.000]
[MSG:ERR: Invalid geometry: belt length -14.064 too short for Z height 78.000]
[MSG:ERR: Invalid geometry: belt length 24.092 too short for Z height 100.000]
[MSG:ERR: Invalid geometry: belt length 32.605 too short for Z height 56.000]
[MSG:ERR: Invalid geometry: belt length -14.054 too short for Z height 78.000]
[MSG:ERR: Invalid geometry: belt length 24.103 too short for Z height 100.000]
[MSG:ERR: Invalid geometry: belt length 32.605 too short for Z height 56.000]
[MSG:ERR: Invalid geometry: belt length -14.032 too short for Z height 78.000]
[MSG:ERR: Invalid geometry: belt length 24.124 too short for Z height 100.000]
[MSG:ERR: Invalid geometry: belt length 31.747 too short for Z height 56.000]
[MSG:ERR: Invalid geometry: belt length -14.064 too short for Z height 78.000]
[MSG:INFO: Measured waypoint 0]
[MSG:INFO: Unable to determine machine position]
[MSG:INFO: Center point off by: TL: -966.459 TR: -992.836 BL: -807.987 BR: -979.317]
[MSG:ERR: Center point off by over 100.000mm]
[MSG:INFO: Frame size successfully adjusted to: nan x nan]
[MSG:INFO: Machine Position computed as X: nan Y: nan]
[MSG:ERR: MaslowKinematics: Failed to compute X,Y from belt lengths, using (0,0)]
[MSG:ERR: MaslowKinematics: Failed to compute X,Y from belt lengths, using (0,0)]
[MSG:ERR: MaslowKinematics: Failed to compute X,Y from belt lengths, using (0,0)]
[MSG:ERR: MaslowKinematics: Failed to compute X,Y from belt lengths, using (0,0)]

Meanwhile, I fixed the anchor height thing by putting negative height for the spoil board. Now it’s just sitting doing nothing while claiming to be finding anchors. No messages. Will cycle again…

Aha. Silly me, because I wasn’t doing retractions back to the machine. One of my anchor points is hard to reach, so I was trying to avoid detaching and re-attaching. But (obviously now that I think about it) no.

Also, the stiffeners work well for stiffening, but the extra height clearly makes the machine unusable because taut belts mean lifting the machine up off the work surface. So another rethink. I need something different for that inaccessible corner.

But I think this does give a clue to the endless extension thing – have to check for the NaN condition before trying to do waypoints.

Can you put a copy of your maslow.yaml file here and a photo of one of your Anchor points

maslow(2).yaml (6.8 KB)

As you can see, good for stiffness, stupid for the downward force needed to keep the machine on the work surface.

rp1007 wrote:

As you can see, good for stiffness, stupid for the downward force needed to
keep the machine on the work surface.

no downward force is needed. gravity is enough. but that type of design is bad
for stiffness. if you put 60 pounds or so on it, not only will the rod flex, but
so will the junction box.

but with this sort of anchor, you should go in to the settings and change your z
offset to 0 for each arm and position the anchor at the same height as the arm
in all 4 corners. (and set spoilboardthickness to 0)

David Lang

Is that the corner of your work piece in the photo? It is a very small work area 1200*1220. To get that to work I think you will need to set your anchor heights pretty much level with each arm when the Maslow Z is right down, and you will need to adjust the Z values to suit in your maslow.yaml file
kinematics:
MaslowKinematics:
tlX: 9.300000
tlY: 1174.900024
tlZ: 100.000000
trX: 1547.699951
trY: 1185.300049
trZ: 56.000000
blX: 0.000000
blY: 0.000000
blZ: 34.000000
brX: 1541.800049
brY: 0.000000
brZ: 78.000000
beltEndExtension: 30.000000
armLength: 123.400002
maxSegmentLength: 5.000000
fixedZ: false
All the highlighted will need to be set to 0 and spoil board set to 0
I would put a block of wood on each Anchor Point at the correct height for each, bolted down and belt on top free to move.

I was seeing much better stiffness than with just the rod. But gravity really isn’t enough. When the belts tightened during waypoint finding, the attachment points that were above their respective arms definitely lifted the machine off the work surface.

You’re right about work surface size being a problem, but it’s one I can’t really solve right now without moving most of the other machines and supplies out of my shop. Maybe if I went vertical and put the frame over the front windows…

rp1007 wrote:

I was seeing much better stiffness than with just the rod. But gravity really
isn¢t enough. When the belts tightened during waypoint finding, the attachment
points that were above their respective arms definitely lifted the machine off
the work surface.

the anchors should never be above the arms. level with the arms is the ideal
(IMHO)

David Lang