@bar im curious about how we load in and out the stock material. right now we disconnect the chains from the ring but i dont see the same provision in the photos.
Considering the new system doesn’t require the traditional hanging frame and is designed to be much more mobile, we likely detach the belts from anchor points allowing them to wind back into the machine, swap out the stock, then pull the belts back out and reattach to anchor points.
From there the system would pull the belts tight and know how much of each belt is out, and once told the distance between the given mount points know its relative position.
Depending on the various details the system could open up possibilities like milling onto existing objects like decks and table tops, maybe even allow for vertical milling.
Mind you this is all speculative based on seeing the machine and reading comments here.
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Wanted also to enthusiastically respond that I’m in as well.
Also happy to help with coding/debugging/mechanical engineering/testing.
It’s not entirely clear to me if the 4 belts are captive, rolling into and storing in the unit when shortened. That was always one of the challenges I couldn’t resolve when thinking about mounting the motors on the sled with the chain driven design. Loose ends. 
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You are right that the cut square and the spoil board aren’t quite aligned, that’s because the spoil board is mounted a bit crooked on the frame. I was trying to put it up by myself and it was heavy 
A lot. One of the biggest challenges has been figuring out how to transfer all the forces in a way that doesn’t break anything. The sled is actually free to rotate, but it rotates around the router bit. The dust collection hose tends to keep it upright, but the rotation of the sled doesn’t have any impact on the accuracy of the cut.
Good eye! It’s 300mm The reason for the smaller sled is that we’re going to ship the sled with the kit this time and 300mm is the biggest thing that can fit in a USPS flat rate box. I’m not sure that the whole kit will actually fit in a flat rate box, but if I can make it fit it will save everyone a bunch of money on shipping.
The z-axis is driven by two stepper motors with lead screws:
It’s quite quick, the z-axis speed is very much not a limiting factor anymore. It can plunge more quickly than the router bit likes to cut into the wood.
Unfortunately we’re pretty much stuck with the Dewalt router. I’m open to trying to support more router options down the road, but the router is a pretty integrated part of the system so switching to a different one would require some hacking.
@digitydogs is exactly correct. You can remove the sled from the workspace and it will retract all the belts to be stored inside the sled. When you are ready to put it back up you can extend them again and re-attach to the frame. It will give you a little extra slack to make attaching easy and then take the slack back up.
You are spot on 
. They roll up and store inside when shortened. That’s the big reason for the switch from chains to belts.
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cool. how does the retract function work? are the belts on some form of springloaded coil or do the motors just roll the belts up?
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Good eye! It’s 300mm The reason for the smaller sled is that we’re going to ship the sled with the kit this time and 300mm is the biggest thing that can fit in a USPS flat rate box. I’m not sure that the whole kit will actually fit in a flat rate box, but if I can make it fit it will save everyone a bunch of money on shipping.
even if you end up with a couple flat rate boxes, that will be far cheaper than
other shipping.
Unfortunately we’re pretty much stuck with the Dewalt router. I’m open to trying to support more router options down the road, but the router is a pretty integrated part of the system so switching to a different one would require some hacking.
please plan for adapters for smaller motors (I’m thinking specifically about
spindles)
David Lang
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Since I have an investment in 3 of the Rigid R22002 routers used for the original Maslow, I’d love an option to use those with the M4, rather than buying new and less powerful Dewalt trim routers.
Don’t know how far down the design path you are, @bar, but if it is possible to scale the core diameter such that folks could slide in just about any reasonable spindle, that would be amazing.
(I do have a Dewalt DCW600B 20V trim router which has the same dimensions as the Dewalt DWP611, but it would be a pain to swap batteries on big jobs. Although it is also rated at 1.5HP, that power can wane as the battery discharges.)
For that matter, reuse of any Maslow components (e.g., stepper motors) from my existing builds would be more economical and less wasteful. A “Maslow conversion kit” version of the M4 would be a fantastic follow up for those of us who are quite happy making a Franken-M4. 
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Since I have an investment in 3 of the Rigid R22002 routers used for the original Maslow, I’d love an option to use those with the M4, rather than buying new and less powerful Dewalt trim routers.
Don’t know how far down the design path you are, @bar, but if it is possible to scale the core diameter such that folks could slide in just about any reasonable spindle, that would be amazing.
scaling up to handle the larger router would probably push it beyond the size
that could fit in the flat rate boxes, and cost significantly more (enough to
eat in to the savings from not buying another router)
For that matter, reuse of any Maslow components (e.g., stepper motors) from my
existing builds would be more economical and less wasteful. A “Maslow
conversion kit” version of the M4 would be a fantastic follow up for those of
us who are quite happy making a Franken-M4.
not likely, the existing maslow doesn’t use steppers, and the new motors shown
are quite different from the old ones (which is probably a good thing,
especially if they can run on 24v). I just don’t see many components that would
be able to be re-used.
David Lang
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should also add that if bar has already commissioned the molds for the injection molding machine then changing at this point could be quite expensive.
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How do I get on the list?
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It really is such a great deal.
I will try to keep it as flexable as possible, smaller is quite a bit easier than larger. I think that smaller should be pretty doable.
I hear this for sure. We could maybe do a Rigid version at some point in the future, but it would require beefing up several of the parts to handle the extra weight and I’m worried that the increased cost could end up being more than the cost of the router. Let me keep thinking on it.
No way I can afford that That will be post kickstarter…at least after the launch. I am getting all the files quoted and locked down before then though so it should be a quick process once we’re ready to spend the money.
No list yet, but I’ll announce the kickstarter in the forums a couple days before it goes public so you all should have no trouble getting to the front of the line.
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Hats off to you, @bar, and your consistent community spirit. We’re lucky to have you.
+1 from me for breaking out any spare ESP GPIOs on your snazzy new PCB to some sort of pads or pins so that tinkerers can hack in onboard indicator LEDs or an e-stop should they want to extend the code.
I’m wary of the ESP module’s PCB antenna - I’ve had some mediocre performance from them, but always found that the external-antenna version of the module works great with a little wifi rubber ducky anntenna with an SMA connector (I use ESP32-WROOM-32UE module and a U.FL to SMA coax pictail).
I’m sure you’re done your own testing already, and in this application where the wifi peer is probably quite close I’m sure it’s fine, but just thought I’d throw the idea out there that you could incorporate an antenna mount into your plastics design and only increase the BOM a buck or two.
Also, I’m not going to say “sorry to hear you quit your job” because I’m not! I’m going to say wow man super cool that you quit your job! It must be really exciting to be in a position where you can do that and undertake a daunting project like this. You’re a brave lad I wish you all the best luck. As those of us who make things know, it’s often 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration eh
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I have a LOT of experience with these boards, there are over 50 active in my house right now, none using the external antenna, all working perfectly 24/7 365.
The biggest contributors I have noticed to the boards having wifi issues without one, in no particular order, are:
Coded for battery power not mains
Code issues with wifi implementation
Code issues with loops/waiting
Dual band wifi using the same SSID (this seems to affect a lot of 2.4 only devices)
Over-Crowded wifi channel
Transmit power on router/APs is too high
Improper AP placement/coverage
In general these boards are intended for low power use, in IOT style applications, so the onboard antenna has a low transmit power. In most consumer networks your routers and APs have the transmit power up as high as it can legally go by default in order to appear to give you the best network signal strength.
Result, devices can hear the wifi, but the wifi can’t really hear the devices, especially in noisy or overpopulated environments. An external antenna on the device will help you overcome this, but its a one device solution. Adjusting the underlying wifi network will ensure all your devices can communicate properly and help prevent issues in the future.
With the firmware being designed for a mains powered device we won’t need to worry about anything on the code side so the onboard antenna won’t be limited in any way.
That being said we live in an imperfect world so if it is possible to work an external antenna into the design I highly recommend doing so as it will vastly expand the mobility and versatility of the system.
@bar maybe look into the potential of an addon ethernet hat, I’m not sure what the free gpio situation currently looks like, but it could be a useful addition for those concerned with using wifi/BT
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That’s great advice about the wifi antenna performance. I was just looking at the modules which have an external antenna plug.
Is there a pin compatible (pad compatible? I guess there are no pins) module with an external antenna and internal antenna? It wouldn’t be too hard to offer both options.
With the ESP32-WROOM modules that I’ve used in my designs, unfortunately no there isn’t a version that has both - you either choose ESP32-WROOM-32U for built-in, or ESP32-WROOM-32UE for coax port (they are pad-compatible, but the PCB antenna version requires that keep-out area below the PCB to be a void - ie the part you’ve hung off the side of your main PCB circle).
There are other variants available with which you can provide your own RF interface hardware. This recent YT video on the topic might be handy if you’re interested:
But in this instance you’re probably better off to just test with the built-in one, and as long as it works OK up to a few meters from the controlling system then it’s all good
I appreciate the PCB antenna modules can work reliably in ideal conditions as Rob has highlighted. But I build boards that are deployed in button-pad devices at customer sites and they need to work every single time the customer pushes that button no matter what, even though I don’t have control of the networks at those locations. I’ve solved real-world problems by swapping a PCB-antenna module version for a rubber-ducky antenna version more than once before, and now I just go for the rubber ducky by default to avoid any chance of that being a problem because the increase in cost is so minimal.
PS, just a quick note on the wired ethernet side (not that I’m suggesting it) - the ESP32 does have a built in ethernet MAC, do you don’t need a hat if you can add the PHY and RJ45. The Silicogition wESP32 combines that approach along with a PoE implementation for powering it (there are other non-PoE implementations too, this is just an example):
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@bar the True Creative product that @Orob shared is actually my new company. We’re knee deep in dev on it right now. I was mulling over whether to even bring it up in this discussion.
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It’s brilliant and awesome! I’m super stoked to follow along as it progresses. Absolutely fantastic work!
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Not available here at all (nothing Dewalt is available here)
Dewalt Indonesia does not list any routers / trimmers for sale - so I can’t get it there either. So if I’m ordering this thing from ‘somewhere else’ then I’m paying freight and customs clearance, which is why going for a proper spindle is something I’m seriously considering.
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How about Makita? Are those available to you?
Im curious what the body diameter differences between the dewalt and makita compact routers
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