🌞 New Stock Frame Design 🌞

[dlang]

moving away from the graphics back to the design discussion for a bit.

other than making the top crossbar optional (and the change to the squaring step if the top crossbar isn’t there), and the top bar attachment, is there anything in this design and steps that anyone disagrees with?

[dlang]

back to the images discussion for a moment

@madgrizzle I don’t know how many colors you think we can reasonably play with, but I was wondering if we have enough to color the different length 2x4s in different colors throughout the series? (10 colors total, 11 if we count the angle brackets for the unistrut)

Also, would it help or hurt to dim the colors of parts that are already attached in the later stages to make it more obvious which parts are new in this step? or do you think the labels already do a good enough job of that?

[madgrizzle]

@dlang

so in step 1, you use one blue and yellow piece, attach the block, then use the

same blue and yellow piece to position the second block.

Follow your instructions! Same red and yellow piece… correct?

Cleaned up Step 1 (printed to pdf from Visio)

step 1-c.pdf (306.0 KB)

[madgrizzle]

@dlang

I was wondering if we have enough to color the different length 2x4s in different colors throughout the series

Is there a cut list drawing?

I’ll see what I can do with the dimming… good idea regardless.

[blurfl]

@dlang

remember the idea of using weights and something to guide the weight holder behind the workpiece

That is the method I’m using, but the turning block for one side can interfere with the chain/sprocket/s-hook of the other side when the sled is near one of the motors. Too, the bitter end of the chains needs to be anchored near it’s associated motor but out of the way of the active portion of the chain.
All this would be easier if the beam were longer, but we’re storing tow 19’ pieces of chain on a beam that has 9.5’ of working length.
Take some time to model how the chain storage works, it’s an interesting mechanical problem. It will be interesting to see how others address and improve it.

[dlang]

@madgrizzle

Follow your instructions! Same red and yellow piece… correct?

Cleaned up Step 1 (printed to pdf from Visio)

step 1-c.pdf (306.0 KB)

oops, yes
here is the pdf converted with the inkscape internal converter

converting with pdf2svg or in inkscape with the external converter looses the text

[madgrizzle]

Here it as svg as saved from Visio… maybe… I can’t seem to upload a svg.

[dlang]

@blurfl

All this would be easier if the beam were longer, but we’re storing tow 19’ pieces of chain on a beam that has 9.5’ of working length.
Take some time to model how the chain storage works, it’s an interesting mechanical problem. It will be interesting to see how others address and improve it.

we have just a couple inches under 5’ from the top of the sprocket to the center of the beam

we have 11’ of chain
there is always going to be at least 13" of chain out the other side of the sprocket (+ about an inch wrapped around the sprocket), so we have 9’10" or so of chain to stash in about 5’

At most, we are going to run out a total of 10.5’ of chain, plus about an inch around the sprocket, an inch around the idler, and a couple inches to cover the distance between the idler center and sprocket center

the motor sprocket is only an inch or so from the end of the beam.
the idle end needs to attach below the top of the sprocket and above a line 10 degrees from horizontal. This means it needs to attach on the motor mount, but that also means it’s not more than 3" from the end of the beam.

it’s close, but I think the chain clears the centerline by just a smidge.

[dlang]

uploading a svg tries to display it, go ahead and e-mail it to me (david@lang.hm)

[madgrizzle]

emailed (you can delete your email address). I can view it in chrome with no issue. Not all svgs are created equal I guess.

[dlang]

here is the pdf of the cut list (the top two are optional, and if we use the unistrut brackets, we don’t use the 10" top beam braces
stick cut list.pdf (894.2 KB)

[dlang]

opening it in inkscape caused a lot of errors, but it looked like it opened, but saving it and trying to upload it here doesn’t seem to be working (based on what’s right below this text)

edit, I found some control characters in the file, with them stripped out I get:

I’ll poke around a little more at the svg directly out of visio a bit later

[dlang]

about the chain takeup, with the old vertical design, we only had about 5.5 ft of vertical distance, and it had to allow for the stretchy cord. so turning it sideways into 5’ without the need to have the cord in that distance should be possible (if tight)

also, I said earlier that there is always at least 13" sticking out, that would be with a 8" rotation radius. With a smaller rotation radius, more chain will always be deployed

[dlang]

interesting, there are a couple characters lost in the last series.

I think the best thing is to print to pdf from visio (also, if you can eliminate the border around the edges, I can shrink the ‘page’ to exactly fit the images as I convert from pdf to svg.

so is your workflow now:

1. Load pdf into inkscape and save as an svg.
2. Load svg into Visio, edit and save as a pdf.
   when you import into inkscape, do you uncheck ‘embed images’? (when I do that, I loose the colors)

I can do all the conversions, so you just need to load the svgs into visio, edit and save as pdf

[madgrizzle]

It’s:

1. Load pdf into inkscape
2. Delete borders and title block
3. Move any text that remains if necessary (pdf text comes in as line segments)
4. Fill shapes with color.
5. Save as SVG
6. Load SVG into Visio
7. Replace text with actual text
8. Add anything that needs to be added.
9. Print to PDF

[blurfl]

@dlang

it’s close, but I think the chain clears the centerline by just a smidg

Have you taken into account the length of the-hook and the attachment and turning block for whatever line tensions it? There’s an inch or three there. It’s necessary for more than just the chain to clear the workings of the other side.

@dlang

the idle end needs to attach below the top of the sprocket and above a line 10 degrees from horizontal. This means it needs to attach on the motor mount, but that also means it’s not more than 3" from the end of the beam.

Check these assumptions, they might not be necessary. ‘attach on the motor mount’ seems to conflict with ‘out of the way of the active chain’ for instance. Why does the bitter end need to ‘to attach below the top of the sprocket and above a line 10 degrees from horizontal’? Couldn’t it pass above the motor mount?
Lots of things for folks to try, but important enough to resist reducing the space available to work in.

[madgrizzle]

I found that transferring the data between inkscape and Visio worked better using emf. Only issue I ran into was that some very small lines when imported into inkscape grew in thickness. But those were readily fixable. Attached is step 1 and cut list in svg format (brought into inkscape from Visio as an emf).

Why do my uploads come out like this but @dlang, your’s seem to keep the same file name and have a mouse-over? And text looks all messed up… sigh

Step 1:

CutList:

Here are the files in emf:
stick cut list.emf (99.2 KB)
step 1-c-inked.emf (187.7 KB)

[dlang]

@blurfl

@dlang

it’s close, but I think the chain clears the centerline by just a smidg

Have you taken into account the length of the-hook and the attachment and turning block for whatever line tensions it? There’s an inch or three there. It’s necessary for more than just the chain to clear the workings of the other side.

no, I missed that

@blurfl

@dlang

the idle end needs to attach below the top of the sprocket and above a line 10 degrees from horizontal. This means it needs to attach on the motor mount, but that also means it’s not more than 3" from the end of the beam.

Check these assumptions, they might not be necessary. ‘attach on the motor mount’ seems to conflict with ‘out of the way of the active chain’ for instance. Why does the bitter end need to ‘to attach below the top of the sprocket and above a line 10 degrees from horizontal’? Couldn’t it pass above the motor mount?
Lots of things for folks to try, but important enough to resist reducing the space available to work in.

It’s always good to check assumptions

the idle chain needs to clear a line 10 degrees from horizontal of the bottom of the sprocket because that’s the line the chain will be on when you are at the top on the far side

I assume that you can’t mount above the motor because there is nothing to mount to.

I said attach to the motor mount because when I take a 2x4, mount the motor on it, then take another 2x4 at a 10 degree angle, tangent to the sprocket, it looks like there is no way to have the slack end attach below the motor/mount

I’m also assuming that the chain all needs to be in the same plane because otherwise when it’s almost all run out, the angle on the short amount of chain left will be steep.

[dlang]

@madgrizzle

Why do my uploads come out like this but @dlang, your’s seem to keep the same file name and have a mouse-over? And text looks all messed up… sigh

I am running Inkscape 0.92.2 (5c3e80d, 2017-08-06) on unbuntu 17.10

opening your emf files in inkscape produces some bad text


It is also leaving them small when I export them from inkscape as an “inkscape svg”

when I get the visio pdf’s you’ve posted, I just open them in inkscape, and leave embed images checked

I then go to file → save as, and it offers me the same filename with a different extension

and then upload the results here

[dlang]

by the way, the only reason we care about to vs bottom diagonals is that the 24" ones can be used to space the top crossmember if you are not putting in verticals (otherwise, use a vertical per my earlier version)

also, all the 3.5" blocks are interchangeable, and when using them as spacers as I do in step 1, it can be any spare piece of 2x material, it doesn’t matter what (I just used the small blocks as they are more convenient) so unless it’s necessary to call them out for reasons of ordering things, they could all be the same color