I am eagerly awaiting my Maslow 4 and planning for its use in scenic construction at our local community theater (I live in a 670 square foot condo, so I won’t be using it at home).
The theater is happy to help, but the footprint of a vertical frame is too big for the space available. We can’t set anchors in the stage surface (the only space large enough to build on), but if I could build a collapsible frame for the anchors with a little lift for the workpiece, it could all store nicely and still be very useful. Thoughts/ideas/inspirations?
I posted before about a frame that could be assembled with a pair of hollow core
doors and a couple of 2x4s. in a theater environment, I’ll bet you could
make/find some panels that could be used for this and be used for other things
as well.
I’m thinking about a collapsible frame, too. I have nowhere to store an 8x10ft frame, so I’ve been looking into T-slot extruded aluminum. There are a few comments on the forums about it, one recommending 25mm minimum. The web site says the steel strut channel frame isn’t recommended because steel is springy–I think the aluminum t-slot will fare better. Just the matter of cost My idea is to recreate the 2x4 wood frame, but using 25mm x 25mm T-slot and gusseted corner braces. I’d love a cheaper option, though!
No idea if this would help, but I was planning to use a Bora Centipede with either 2x or braced/box beamed sheet good outriggers for my setup. I’m in a somewhat similar situation with limited dedicated space or storage options and a desire to take the M4 to site specific jobs, so a collapsible platform is the goal. The Bora Centipede is not the most DIY or cost effective option for sure, but its is a stellar platform for breaking down sheet materials and most carcass assembly work, so there is that use as well.
My M4 is hopefully a day or so out, and I will soon be testing these ideas. It also may be worth a look at some Paulk-style torsion boxes. Those could take outriggers or be assembled as modules to get you the scale you need. So many ways to slice it…
I did try the Centipede (4’x8’), but in the process of working through the outrigger design I found a simpler solution: saw horses that hold 2x on the outer edges. With this setup, the frame can be reduced down to (6) 2x4x8’ that use two different profile cuts that lap together. The frame breaks down to around a square foot of garage space (standing vertically) and setup is around 10 minutes. It does require 12 carriage bolts (8 for the frame, 4 for the M4 fastening points).
I attached the layout and cut profiles for this frame below, as well as a picture of it set up. The layout works for a set of Bora Speedhorses, so a different horse may require adjustments to the layout. You also don’t need the horses, but I prefer to work off of the ground.
Awesome! Thanks! To ensure I understand correctly, these use lap joints where the 2x4s cross, correct? So essentially the tops of all the 2x4s are in the same plane? Do you have a picture without the plywood on top?
Interesting, my concern would be how stiff these are. I would want to setup a camera on a tripod looking at each of the corners and then play back the video at high speed to look for movement
Sure, here you go. The lap joint are all coplanar with the top of the frame. The nice thing with the Bora Speedhorses was that same offset for the lap joint (1 1/2") was built into the 2x4 that are used as rails here. That adds a bit more support/securing opportunities for the outriggers 2xs given that they rest on the top of the horses.
dlang, I also have had that thought but haven’t had issue with that yet. Flexing a 2x4 on its long axis is tough, and the max unsupported distance is ~3’ which does reduce the chance of flexure. I do like the idea of running a camera on it to measure the deflection on a cut and will have to give that a try. If it is a problem, I would consider swapping the top 2x4s for 2x6s to reduce the chances of deflection.
I have the Bora horses (and a couple of Centepedes, which is why I was interested in this thread). I put in for the current Kickstarter, so I won’t have my Maslow until February I think. I don’t have a good place for a full frame, even vertically, and I rent so putting anchors into concrete is a no-go. This completely fits the bill.
Hmm, wouldn’t using 2x6s as the pieces connecting the saw horses and 2x4s “on edge” improve rigidity (at least vertically)? I think you’d need the extra clearance over the saw horses to be able to put the 2x4s up on edge, hence 2x6s as the side beams. I don’t know how much of a problem there might be with horizontal deflection from the belts pulling the unit around, but I’m new to all of this.
dlang, I also have had that thought but haven’t had issue with that yet. Flexing a 2x4 on its long axis is tough, and the max unsupported distance is ~3’ which does reduce the chance of flexure. I do like the idea of running a camera on it to measure the deflection on a cut and will have to give that a try. If it is a problem, I would consider swapping the top 2x4s for 2x6s to reduce the chances of deflection.
depending on how it flexes, adding a T board to the back may be what reduces the
flex the best.
I created an onshape doc to let you calculate this frame.
It positions the arms so the outside tips of the short arms are 4’ apart, so if you use 8’ rails you can position your workpiece/spoilboard easily.
you enter the anchor dimensions, board width, and inside distance between the rails (sawhorse distance), and optionally the rail and arm lengths (they default to 8’). The doc then attempts to make a frame that complies and gives you two distances.
One is the distance (along the outside of the rail) from the end of the rail to where the arm crosses the rail.
The other is a distance from the short end of the arm to the center of the joint between the arms.
Drill a hole where the arms cross.
pivot them until the far tips of the short arms are 4 ft from each other
mark where they cross and cut a half lap
Put the rails on the sawhorses.
Mark the rails on the outside at the appropriate distance, position the arms at that point to mark the joints to cut there.
@dlang This is a very helpful walk-though, drawing and model to work from. Honestly shocked by the work going into this frame. I feel bad for not following up earlier.
I hope this comes off as constructive, but attached is a diagram of how I set the frame so it would do two specific things: it would match the typical frame mounting dimensions of 10’x8’, and it would allow for clamping a minimal 2’x4" sheet (@ center of frame) with benchdog clamps as needed. I used a 2’x2’ grid to layout points the outriggers needed to pass through, and all the geometry that followed was dependent on the width of the sawhorse rails. It’s similar to the Onshape model but accounts for these extra conditions.
If it desirable, I can upload the model I have. It’s in Rhino, so I figured that is not the most accessible for everyone. If anyone wants it please let me know.
I’m thinking of creating a square frame using a cross tube. see the amazon link:
I’d insert metal tubes in each end of the cross and drill in feet in the tubes and the cross and an attachment points in each corner.
Use a sacrificial board to provide rigidity by attaching to the tubes.
@Garse I hadn’t thought of benchdogs in the arms. That’s a fascinating thought
I had thought that you would use a wasteboard and do workholding on the wasteboard, but doing that to the arms, if nothing else to hold the spoilboard to the arms with sections of 3/4 PVC pipe (which would not be a problem to cut into).
I would put them more on the inside of the 4x8 area (and just a little past it) to be able to hold 4x8 and smaller stock.
how close to the end of the 2x4 do you think we can put the bench dog holes?
My idea is to recreate the 2x4 wood frame, but using 25mm x 25mm T-slot and gusseted corner braces. I’d love a cheaper option, though!
I put in for the current Kickstarter, so I won’t have my Maslow until February I think. I don’t have a good place for a full frame, even vertically, and I rent so putting anchors into concrete is a no-go. This completely fits the bill.
