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Maslow taking a break discussion


#21

My question is:
Is it really necessary to include all the wood screws?
The point is that it can be a pain in the ass for the Maslow team to buy, sort and package all this items. I don’t see much added value in having wood screws, because this kit does not include 100% of the parts, I still have to go to a store to buy wood and figure out how to assemble de base of the machine. So having 20% or 25% makes no difference to me and I would prefer to have all the difficult/tech parts in the kit and a BOM to buy the easy to find parts. This way, they can have less parts in stock, the delivery is less expensive and for the same price they can sell with better margin and less manual work.


#22

i agree, the low quality wood screws were a little unnececarry, I would argue that most things that you can get in the store where you get your lumber shouldn’t be in the kit.


#23

Really glad to hear that isn’t the case!


#24

Received my kit in good order. Got it running with the help of a couple nerd friends.
The price of the kit is super fair. The only change i would suggest is to leave out all those nuts, bolts and drywall screws that can be sourced at any box store. The only ones i used were for the ring. Loose all those little parts and send what we cant source easy. Keep the price the same.
As for the bungee cords, the original set up works just fine with chains free falling straight down. U cant beat simple. IMHO


#25

At least keep including any fasteners where the thread pitch matters for sourcing inch vs metric sizes, and making the rest an extra cost option. The closest hardware store to Mooseville is 20 miles away, and the nearest big box stores is over a hundred (giggle will convert if you forget 0.6mi/km). Plus metric parts are difficult and expensive to find here if they don’t fit a common vehicle like a Fiero. I didn’t create this situation, it’s just what it is. Otoh we can hear doves and sandhill cranes (aka big honkey birds for their size and honking calls) this morning


#26

Look the product works, the price point is great. I suggest you eliminate 90% of the difficulty and source It in America. Forget translations, poor quality, mass inventory pre-payments, shoddy junk and random buy-off fees to get things actually shipped from slave factories.

If the price creeps somewhat - no big deal. It’s not like buying from America hurts you somehow. Pass the BS off to vendors that are pros at handing part sourcing and manufacturing and forgot more than you want to know. If a non-Chinese company in reality has a better situation like competitive price and reliable quality and delivery then use them and have a life lol.

The reaction by those that have the least understanding of manu today is “make it in China”. When the reality beyond unit price is horrific and far harder and more stressful to bring to market a product that often has a fraction of the life and resilience.

I applaud your discipline in mission to bring such a system to Maslow to market at a price point … evolve. You, unlike many cnc systems just use off the shelf solutions. Rigid or Bosch or whomever - it’s easy. These manufactures support their solution independently - imagine if you relied on some obscure sweat shop motor provider… pre-made solutions also speeds orders, makes the process more dependable for the user and there are no bad shipments and pre-payments or import bs to drain your life, money or energy.

Also I would like to remind you that your community counts and even if there is a solution for parts that we cannot meet, we may know a better way to get it sourced. We may be willing to make it for you as a vendor. If my Maslow with community parts cost more but I could support us and get my system faster then give me the option. You crowd funded why not return to those that already backed you and see if anyone can support the product as a more local supplier as crowd sourced?

Many of your users are very intelligent - as the agent of change we all believe… re-engage that belief and leverage it to make the product. Your an agent of change not a slave to the concept. Enable and coordinate not sweat shipments and deadlines.

We are Maslow because we agree with your vision here in how to be more.

Every user could go to China or wherever and have stuff cut. We use Maslow because we want to be enabled and empowered by something more that hands us the affordable keys to our needs and creativity. Together we exceed.

We don’t send our stuff to China cause we want more. I suggest you open source that and focus on more and let go of outsource hell. It can help the community and you.

And frankly if you think it’s hell trying to do logistics from slave shops, stop and think what it must be like to actually make your parts. Don’t believe me, go visit your Chinese suppliers in person - then contrast that to what you were doing at 9 years old.

Contrast that to what you thought a successful kickstarter would mean and what you experience now…

Evolve. You can’t know until you try. I say leverage the community and have us help you make the product. Have us help solve sourcing pains when we can’t make it. It’s called community - we leverage the group and the group leverages us in free market reality. Give us the option to help it get done right.


#27

Who is we in this quote?
Let me remind you Maslow is an INTERNATIONAL community.
I am from Peru (And I lived in China for many years)… never understand why this has to be USA centered?

It is difficult to source from China. But China is great!

If the price creeps up many users in South America, and other regions in the world would not be able to buy the Maslow. I think the price point is less than 350 USD is the best target.

There are many good reasons to use China, the logistics and sourcing done right with someone who speaks Chinese is a great way to do business.

I work in a multinational company in Sllicon Valley that manufactures pretty much everything in China. We make high end cellphones… If you have good Guanxi, then you should be able to source in China no quality problems.

This is my last year in California. I am going back to China ASAP… cannot understand this Made-in America movement, makes things so expensive and hinders globalization.


#28

Also, I do not agree with the tone in this comment… We should be grateful that Maslow does not have many China users, otherwise, they might take the tone of this comment in the wrong way.

This whole posts is so centered in USA way of doing things… I would dislike to see Maslow turning into a USA-Only-kinda-club.


#29

I agree in theory on this comment as some suppliers are not good. But in general you should visit your suppliers and establish Guanxi, get them to work with you.

I go to China almost 4 times a year to visit my suppliers. It is always a great thing to do.

I would not call them slave shops though…


#31

John, they have all the details of what the parts are, and there now has been
someone creating a motor board design that’s a step up.

There have been LOTS of people looking for motors of similar specs, but there
has not been a large amount of success in finding good motors (now, part of that
is that the controller board is engineered to be ‘just good enough’, so motors
that need even a little more current can’t be run by the controller board).

David Lang


#32

David!! How are you my friend.
Is there a reason why the board was designed to handle “just enough” current?
Does this mean that the board has custom designed just for the motors?


#33

Is there a reason why the board was designed to handle “just enough” current?

yes, because that lets it be as cheap as it can possibly be

Does this mean that the board has custom designed just for the motors?

pretty much all of the hardware was engineered to work together, which means
that if the motors selected only need 2A of current, then the chips on the board
are selected to support 2A of current, and the power supply selected is a 4A
supply.

the ring is made to be just barely large enough for the recommended router (so
that it is cheaper to make and so that it will fit in the medium flat rate box
instead of requiring the more expensive large flat rate box.

All of this is designed to be ‘just good enough’ to work (and therefor as cheap
as possible to make and ship)

It’s not a matter of “I’ll design this to only work with these motors”, it’s
“this is good enough to work with these motors, so why make it more expensive
than it needs to be” (the answer ends up being “to make it more robust”, but
that’s a different discussion.


#34

I’m American (obviously based on what I’m going to say) and I’m 100% against globalization. See, the only reason many many products in the US are so so cheap is because of US companies leveraging extremely cheap labor and poor working conditions, as well as a much lower standard of living in foreign countries. The average Chinese factory worker isn’t getting medical benefits, overtime, double time, holiday pay, 401k for their future, dental, and likely lives in really terrible conditions compared to a US worker. They have to, with what they’re paid.

This is not a dig, but please, go ahead and return to China. I’m glad you have your happy place, but don’t come here to the US and attempt to subvert the expectations and dreams of millions of Americans. If we outsource everything the standard of living is going to dramatically change. I speak from experience as someone who worked for a man in the SF Bay area (in real estate) that hired all illegal immigrant labor. They were exploited for work at $8/hr, never paid overtime, federal holiday pay, medical, dental (all required by law), and exploited because they were willing to cram several families into a teensy tiny 2 bedroom apartment in Redwood City. The female workers were sexually assaulted and harassed on a regular basis by the male workers, and their reports of it were ignored and they were fired. No American citizen is willing to work for peanuts and live like this… and we’re not talking about farm work, but you already know that.


#35

There is a time and place for buy local, but it’s not this forum. Our user community covers a lot more than the US and Maslows are being exported over a good part of the world. Our non-US members might find parts of this discussion offensive, particularly the go home and don’t subvert the American dream (that’s a lot more complex subject than the left coast’s penchant for those who scatter when somebody yells “Immigration” and nimbyism, and perhaps you’re too young to remember the progression from poverty and cheap junk to high standard of living recently taken by a number of countries we bought stuff from) comments.

Time to stop this side discussion, there are better places than here and it’s starting to introduce a tone that we’ve actively avoided. This is not a place to discuss politics or religion


#36

I only addressed it because I felt it would only be fair to see the perspective from both sides. Jose introduced a tone that appeared to mock citizens of the US who encourage “buy American.” I would say you’d find any citizen of any country encouraging their citizens to buy products primarily from their own country, and this is a perfectly good & normal thing.

Maslow is a product that transcends borders and is about a community helping each other regardless of where it’s users are from. It has nothing to do with where the product is sourced from. I believe it’s strength as a product comes from the support of the community AFTER you buy it, and that means international users. However I’m happy to pay more for my Maslow by a few hundred more if that means more people can have a better standard of living, starting with the inventors of Maslow.


#37

Thank you so much for your comment. I agree.


#38

I apologize for my tone. I have a great respect for the USA, my wife was born and raised in Utah. (But my kids were not here, but in China). I been in Asia for many years and traveled extensively in Asia and South America.

Even though I do not have any loyalty to the USA, I still feel grateful for living and working in California.
I think it is a good place to work for the moment. USA is not my favorite country, but high up there in my top 10. :slight_smile:

I think my favorite place to live would be Brazil or China (like in Shanghai).


#39

I know this is not the topic of the discussion, but using a neutral tone, (I really do not mean to offend). China has changed a lot since US companies starting investing there. I think situation has changed a lot, in the factories I work for, workes have medical, dental and retirement (provide by the Jiansu government). There is no much overtime and people are happy. I have seen the change with my own eyes.


#40

I think this has changed also, my parents growing up in South America thought about the American dream. But these days the highly educated and qualified people like me do not have to choose the USA.

Again, in a neutral tone. I do not mean to offend or subvert anything, I am just being honest. I like the USA but I am not about being here in the long term. It is very expensive.

覺得所有的美國人一定要考試學中文。
armyturtle我祝你成功很多多的祝福。


#41

The entire US isn’t like california (especially not like the bay area)

:slight_smile:

David Lang