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Maslow taking a break discussion

  • It’s not that the market is un-viable. The market for the MaslowCNC is the same as the market for EVERY hardware product, whether it is Open-Source HardWare, or whether it is Proprietary HardWare.

  • The market for hardware is the same as the market for infrastructure.

They are Fixed-Size Niche-Markets, with a maximum market size.

With Open-Source HardWare, the market behaviour is even more different, as each customer you sell a tool to, becomes another Competitor to your business.

  • I saw this from watching a colleague run a business making and selling 3D-Printers.

His initial profit margin was based upon selling the printers, but his long-term profit margin came from providing local support services to people who bought/built them.

The market size for printer sales, was based upon how many people he could sell his services to before his customers became his competitors, so he was only able to run this side of the business as a viable business opportunity for three years before his demand dropped to the point of commodity value.

However while this market was shrinking, the market for his local support services was expanding. The customers that he had in other localities, became his peers, providing support services in other geographical areas.

  • The other thing about the Open-Source/Commodity markets is that they are limited-size, locally-based, support-services market-niches.

If you are doing your job properly, then you will put yourself out of work. :smiley:

I did this myself in the early 2000’s.

I converted most of my customers to using Linux, rather than using Windows. This meant that the regular donkey-work i was getting, where i was doing the same things every six months, changed to working on new and chewier problems.

It meant that the business i was running ceased to be a short-term profitable market niche, but this had two effects.

  1. My customers were making more money themselves, as they didn’t have the functionality problems that they needed me to fix, so they were making more profit for themselves.

  2. When they did call me, the problems that i was asked to solve were the really chewy problems, that they could not fix themselves, so my skills were not stagnating. :smiley:

As an added bonus, i got to play with some really chewy hardware, so my skills improved. :smiley:

  • A better way to think about Hardware Design, Research, Development, and, Support, is that they are all different Market Niches that exist simultaneously within different stages of the overall technology life-cycle.

The initial “Most Profitable Niche” is in the sales to customers who don’t have that piece of HardWare yet.

The long-term profitable niche is the selling of Support Services, but this requires a minimum level of market penetration before it becomes a viable niche, within a specific geographical locality.

The Design, and, Research, market niches are another thing to explore, as the main expense is the Time that the Designers, and, Researchers, have available.

This can be worked around through the use of Patreon, Liberapay, or any of the other Crowd-Funding platforms.

Raise the equivalent of a pro-rata market-rate salary, and you’ve got the project funded for that length of time.

And the people who have a track record of doing this successfully, will be most likely to get the funding for their next project, as they have already shown that they can do it.

This is important for successful creative mental work as avoiding the risk of burn-out is something that we should all be practising, if we want to produce our best efforts.

The real question should be “What would they like to work on next?” :smiley:


Oops! You’re right. Edited now for accuracy! :slight_smile: :slight_smile:


I’m sorry, but i’m gonna claim the beer too, sure you got bigger glasses, but we have the better, more varried, stronger ones :slight_smile:


Oh-oh, a German/Belgian beer :beer: :beers: dispute! :grin:


I found a way!

This was from my daughter’s at-the-time kitchen. At first glance it looked like a normal mooselakian kitchen condiment, but then I noticed something was a little different…

This was my from one and so far only trip to Asia, to visit the now grandbaby mommy before she moved. Besides the ketchup :slight_smile: the geometric artwork pretty much everywhere was one of the delights of the trip. Once I get the Maslow going again (<sigh>) (picking up OSB and T1-11 to close in the floor joist ends as soon as the trailer is again emptied of it’s latest dump run pile) I hope to start cutting some similar designs, perhaps on the doors to the new shop cabinets. As an art challenged engineer (which the all very artistic female mooselake manor residents think is amusing) here’s something that’s both intriguing and within my skillset


Actually, Bar has said that this is viable at the current price point. He
learned his lesson after the Makesmith CNC kickstarter where it wasn’t.

That’s not where the problem is. It’s how can they be the most productive and do
the most good. Packing kits and selling parts as a small online mail-order shop
probably isn’t the best use of their time. And that’s where they are wanting to
take a bit of a break and figure out what to do next.

David Lang


Oh oh is right. Politics is one thing, but beer? I think we are going to need to lock down the topic for that! :grinning:


Try drinking Ginger Beer Gero tends to get you in less trouble without the headache the next morning lol



This is why i said that the more important question is what they would like to work on next.

One description of project management applied to Open-Source designs, is that there are four roles involved;

  • Forgers
  • Honers
  • Managers
  • Defenders

Forgers are the researchers and explorers, who go off into the unknown, and forge a new field of activity.

Honers take an existing technology and make it do things that the original creators never even dreamed of.

Managers make sure that the project is ticking over successfully by providing the support that the Forgers, and, Honers, need.

Defenders stop the project from being destroyed, whether by carpet-baggers, legal threats, or laziness.

All of these roles are necessary at different times within the life-cycle of a technology.

  • One that is not mentioned very much, is that of Monetiser: Someone who looks at a new technology and wants to make it self-funding.

Most of the time, the Monetiser is one of the original funders, which in Technology usually means VC money. The problem with VC money, is that they do NOT have the best interests of your work in mind. They are legally required to do the best thing for their investors, which is why VC money is always a poisoned chalice.

Someone who is more of a Manager could set up a web-shop for selling these kits, but could pass out the fulfillment of the orders to the local smaller-scale suppliers, who could also act as local support.

This is the longer-term plan for one project that i’m working on, that would use the MaslowCNC as one of it’s main tools, so regular access to kits would be a necessary component…


above company can prebag screws and other hardware into plastic bags so that might be a significant time saver, or as others have mentioned above just have the customers buy their own screws.


Maslow is on life support. The owners are “taking a break” aka - maslow is dead.
Was a decent idea but to basic, to low cost and outsourced.
I bet we can reproduce this using US motors and parts. Will be more expensive BUT guess what - u are already paying more in time, effort and upgraded parts - be international - i have been to most major cities and just back from Hong Kong - nothing - i mean nothing never in any way shape, form can beat the US. If you disagree - i can pay for your ticket to any country u wish to live - u will be back. I hear Venezuela is “lovely” bring your own toilet paper


I’ll take a ticket to NZ :wink:


Ill take one to Florida


they are not countries - funny


I think your ‘tone’ excludes most of the Maslowians in this forum. You would need to find other we-s.

Not as long as the community is alive. The founders of this fertile ground have created a thriving environment that can outlast them, MaslowCNC stays alive.
Anyhow, there just taking a break.

Edit (spoiler):

The sprit of this project that caught me in October 2016 was:

  • Bring an affordable CNC to people around the globe
  • The chance to do/create good, like emergency shelters, give kids a roof and bring them back to school to ease the trauma of a zunami or an earthquake. The founders made it true:
  • Later I got hooked by this amazing community, ignoring all borders, race, skin colour, religion or political views
  • I’m not intending to hijack the MaslowCNC for a movement, but it has shown me that people from many countries working on a common goal can achieve outstanding results. Despite what the big-shots controlling governments and media want us to do and think.
  • The earth is round and we all are on the same "ball’ and have nowhere else to go.


Was there last fall. Great place to visit, but they don’t want you to move there unless you’re worth a couple mill US or have a skill they need. They were debating restricting foreign home ownership since it’s pricing locals out of the housing market, don’t know how that worked out.

The hospital in one place we stayed was getting donated cardiac monitoring computers, couldn’t afford to replace the old ones themselves.

A 10 day visit wasn’t enough time to understand the complex issues facing kiwiland but it’s got some problems. Plus there’s the earthquakes…


I work in a large organization. We sometimes have colleagues who are selected for temporary assignments to other parts of the organization, usually doing a job that would represent a promotion if it were permanent. My experience is that about half of them never come back to our branch. The other half, though, come back and stay. My point is that it is hard to predict the future. This is especially true if you don’t know many of the details.

Bar and Hannah have been very straightforward with the community, so I’m inclined to believe that they are doing exactly what they have said, taking a break to focus on the longer-range plan and recharge their batteries. Even so, it’s possible that they will discover that they like their break so much they don’t want to come back to the way things have been for the last few years. I don’t know, you don’t know, and even they don’t know what will happen for certain. So I’m not going to spend my time worrying. I’m just going to enjoy the ride.


The project isn’t on life support! The project is the opposite…It’s getting too big for us to do a good job at everything that needs to be done and I want to come up with a plan.

Once this next batch is sent out and the initial wave of support is handled we’ll focus on what to do.

One idea which has been floated is the idea of having Maslow distributors in different countries. That would make shipping quicker and easier.

We will need to find a way to address issues like minimum order quantities of parts…and we need to not become a multi level marketing scheme for that to work but these are the kind of ideas I want to explore.

We will find a solution to make Maslow better and more accessable…the project is not going to die!


Thank you Bar. Do not know you but thank you everything!


A. If you think the Maslow can be dead, you haven’t been on this forum long enough.

B. Almost nothing in that post isn’t offensive to the rest of the world. As much as you’d like to think so, you’re not the greatest country in the world and the vast majority of the rest of the world isn’t a shithole. And you’re definitely gonna find shithole parts in the US as well, if you’re willing to look.

C. Sure there is a lot of shit made in China, but guess what, most of the good stuff is made there too, and most of the raw materials in the US stuff as well. Are you gonna pretend there is no bad product made in America?

I’m not saying we shouldn’t buy in the US, it’s just don’t buy US, just because it is made in US.