You should fire your lawyer. All you need to do is to go to the U.S. trademark website and search.
According to our attorney, “common law” trademarks could be asserted if done timely. Maslow CNC was never a common law trademark, according to his brief opinion, and the history of MakerMade’s use of Maslow CNC was known to Bar, without Bar asserting rights to a registered or common law trademark. MakerMade has cited and used the Maslow CNC, and he does not think Bar can deny that we were using it because he knowingly allowed the use. He was only trying to assert the trademark when it was convenient to do so (such as starting a new company). It is nearly impossible to come back five years later and assert a trademark on a common law basis. East Bay Source, Metal Maslow, and others have also used the name. The name and logos are in the public domain under specific licenses.
When researching this for him, we found old cached versions of the Maslow website. Someone (I presume Bar) only recently added a “TM” after “Maslow CNC” as recently as August or September. Before that, and prior to the formation of Maslow CNC LLC this year, it was listed as a “community project” with licensed material, including names and logos, in the public domain.
I was willing to work with Bar to avoid confusion, get some updated graphics, and make changes to avoid any conflict between the companies. But he did not send me some basic information I needed for our attorney to perform a thorough review. He decided to go public with his allegations and defamation. I have asked for a retraction both privately and publically, but he wishes to continue this way.
I hope this can be my last reply in this thread so we can move on from this…
We absolutely did not give you permission to use the trademark. I was very clear with the founders of MakerMade that it was a trademark and that they could not use it. I have sent you the emails showing that.
My cousin texted me to ask why I was selling the old version on Amazon (which is how I found out) and then I immediately sent you an email asking you to stop. If I could go back in time I would absolutely have put more effort into policing it. It honestly didn’t even occur to me that you would try to steal the name. At the time I was working full time running an engineering team and working on Maslow4 nights and weekends, so keeping track of what you sell on Amazon just wasn’t my highest priority. I was very clear with the MakerMade founders that it is a trademark and the idea that you wouldn’t respect that didn’t cross my mind.
We can move on from this when you stop using our trademark
It’s worth noting that the “founders” you had your correspondence with (Patrick Kinnamon, in particular, since you want to share the screenshots in public) was the former CEO who launched that Amazon page in July 2019. It seems like he is the culpable one here, having gone back on his word with you (see, it’s not the first time that’s happened because he’s fucked me as well).
I asked you to forward me the conversations and communications you had with the founders so my attorney could better understand the history - you refused and ignored my emails. I was willing to resolve this amicably if you only sent me the requested information.
You decided to go public with this in your defamatory video. I was clearly willing to work with you, but you escalated it.
The “M Maslow” logo is GPL-licensed in the public domain. You might want to get that cleared up.
Much of your names and logos are in the public domain on Github, with a variety of licenses - most of which are GPL-3.
Our lawyer spent four billable hours before you posted that video and gave the opinions mentioned in previous posts. I won’t spend another hour of his time until that video is removed.
And just to set the record straight with the community - MakerMade is not claiming the logo. (Which was the only thing registered to a company that dissolved five years ago in Oregon). Contrary to what agreements were made with Patrick, Patrick was the one who went against whatever conversations or agreements you had with him. I was trying to rectify and change that by diligently working with you, had you only replied to my emails with some simple and basic information I requested.
I’m very reasonable to deal with, and most people who know me know that. I like to resolve issues quickly after fully understanding the situation and coming up with a solution as to how it can be resolved that would be a win-win for all.
In early 2022, I was working diligently with the other two Maker Made partners to resolve their differences to see a split that would be a win-win for everyone. Patrick turned and fucked me when he cut out all the work I did with him on his “stand-up CNC machine,” which resulted in legal action taken and his termination - and it seems he fucked you, too, by backtracking on his word.
Here is how reasonable I am in trying to work with you…
I’ve made my point already in private how we can resolve this. You want to make it public and bully MakerMade. I have to go on defense to clear up any misconceptions. It sounds like lawyers need to be involved - this is way over my head now. As reasonable as I was in my emails, you clearly do not want to work with me for whatever reason despite how reasonable I have tried to be. Have Mike Atkins contact me, and I’ll put him in touch with our attorney.
Here is a painting that someone did of some Nike sneakers:
This person could if they wanted to release this painting under a GPL license. In fact Nike could release this painting under a GPL license if they wanted to.
Doing that wouldn’t change the fact that Nike owns the trademark on the Nike logo.
- Letting you know that Maslow CNC is a registered trade mark and legally you can’t use it
- Asking you to stop because it is bad for the project. You are giving people the impression that there is some sort of deal or was once some sort of a deal or connection between us. There has never been any relationship at all. No money has ever gone in either direction.
Again, let me reiterate that prior to your video, I was working diligently with you trying to gather the facts so I could make the necessary changes. You decided to throw MakerMade under the bus. I’m defending MakerMade.
There is no federally registered trademark of “Maslow CNC” that you can assert. Please, correct me if I’m wrong. Even your “M Maslow” logo mark (which is NOT “Maslow CNC”) could have been questionably abandoned when you dissolved Bread & Roses Machine Company in November 2018 - and you failed to renew the trade name “Maslow CNC” in May of 2020. There is no dispute you have been using the name on the website and forums.
I was very open to working with you through your changes and the success of your (new) company. We promoted your Kickstarter and wished you all the best at zero benefit to us. You decide to shit on MakerMade for keeping your community growing for the past 5 years. Not cool.
A few years back, a vendor was concerned that a random forum member replicated their control board and was promoting a non-functional version of it branded exactly after theirs but with a higher version number.
Instead of just suggesting the kid to rename it to avoid reasonable confusion for new buyers, you chose to side with the kid and shame the seller for complaining
You were pounding your chest in the name of the open source community, and you made it clear that this was completely acceptable by open source standards.
Now, by your “standards”, wouldn’t it be totally fine for maker made to be inspired by Maslow 4 and market a version as Maslow 4.1 or a “knockoff” as you call it? …what has changed?
I do remember this because we had been following the changes and updates East Bay was doing. The topic you are referring to is this:
It’s similar to what MakerMade did with the M2 design - it was modified but cited.
I believe his core issue is a single image on an Amazon product listing created in July 2019 that has a the circle M Maslow logo on it. Somehow it’s pivoted to extensive claims to the term/phrase “Maslow CNC” which does not have trademark protection and has been used as a community for quite some time. Regardless, the logos, images, etc to the logo he referenced seem to have been Open Sourced as well since they are in numerous repos.
The message above part of this topic is a thread with Bar:
This is getting old quick!
very true. I’m done with this for now unless he wants to keep trashing MakerMade.
For the time being, MakerMade will continue to sell our Maslow CNC kits until the inventory runs out - just like we have been since 2018 before I had to take over earlier this year. The kit hasn’t changed much at all except maybe a couple better quality components. East Bay took theirs one step further with some updated control boards and software.
Bar (or his attorneys) know how to get in touch with me. He knows how he can work it out if he wants to. I’ve shown I’m a pretty reasonable guy before he went public.
That search has expired, but when I searched for “maslow cnc” on that site I found two hits
Filing Date September 26, 2023 Current Basis 1A Original Filing Basis 1A Owner (APPLICANT) Solidarity Limited DBA Maslow CNC LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY DELAWARE 1968 South Coast Highway #847 Laguna Beach CALIFORNIA 92651-368 Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL-2(F) Live/Dead Indicator LIVE
Filing Date October 2, 2023 Current Basis 1A Original Filing Basis 1A Owner (APPLICANT) Maslow CNC LLC LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY WASHINGTON 727 Jackson St Port Townsend WASHINGTON 98368 Attorney of Record Lyvonne Cyrene Nachelle Jones Prior Registrations 5294441 Disclaimer NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE CNC APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator LIVE
But also I feel like we’re all ready to move on. I think this is pretty clear cut morally and also legally. I don’t think that anyone’s opinion is going to change at this point, let’s move on.
#1) Im a grown ass adult, not a kid. With an actual engineering degree and decades of engineering experience so stop with the passive aggressive comments.
#2) Don’t drag me into this crap.
#3) Every damn comment in this post will now be fair discovery in any court proceeding. NOT A LAWYER but my suggestion to everyone is to stop talking and take this off line.
I’m going to lock this thread, I think everyone has had a chance to state their points and now nothing productive is going to be said at this point.
@jonatpridesleap don’t waste your time replying to these guys.