Maslow 4 Fusion 360 Model

I ordered one of the extra parts batch that were made available a few days ago. I am not sure of the likely delivery time frame, or if there are any taxes to pay on arrival in the UK. Any advice around this would be appreciated.

While I am waiting for delivery is there any kind of 3d model of the Maslow 4 design that can be used in Fusion 360?

I’m also in the UK and just ordered, I did look up duty and tax costs and as far as I could work out duty is about 2.5% (which isn’t bad) but the kicker is the VAT which you also pay on delivery cost so additional cost of £100 or there about.

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I’m also in UK and have just ordered the M4. I would also like a Fusion 360 model but if anyone has a .dwg that would also do the trick.

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I will post models of everything, but I’d like to hold off until when we originally committed to doing it (once everything is shipped).

My reason for hesitating is that MakerMade has made it clear that they plan on selling knock offs as soon as we make the files public and I’d like to hold onto at least a little bit of a head start since they don’t have to worry about any of the challenges of actually designing the thing and writing the software :stuck_out_tongue:

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It wont be any of that, which trips them up. It will be their inability to do things the right way.

You guys clearly care about the product and the end user experience, they care about selling boxes. and gouging on the price.

That will always be your success and their failing.

Keep up the great work.

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What Open Source Licensing models have you considered? For software I used to use MIT (do whatever you want), but I switched to GNU Affero 3 because it has certain advantages for anything that can be run on servers, i.e. ‘in the cloud’.

For software GPL because we’re based on FluidNC which is GPL. For the CAD stuff I’m thinking CC-BY, but I’m open to suggestions.

CC-BY-NC-SA , users can produce their own parts, create better parts based on your work as long as they share them, and MakerMade can license your work separately for commercial use?

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I’d really like to allow commercial reuse, I don’t have any issue with people selling copies of the design. My issue with MakerMade is with their other behavior.

I should do another update on the situation, but its not super fun to talk about and I’d rather focus on the exciting stuff. Long story short they filed a trademark application with the US government claiming that they founded Maslow CNC and have exclusive rights to use the name Maslow CNC…we have a lawyer and I’m 99% sure it will all work out just fine but its just such a hassle dealing with these people. I just want to build things. Luckily Maslow is an open project so it’s easy to see who changed every line of code and when so it should take all of ten seconds to prove that not only did they not found it, they’ve never even contributed.

As much as possible I’d like to keep things totally open and allow commercial reuse, let’s not let one bad actor get us off course.

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:angry: rediculous

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Would unlimited commercial end up with you/MaslowCnc, and the community, unfairly burdened with handling support issues caused by poor quality parts/instructions supplied by company(s) focused on maximizing short term profits over Customer experience?

Noticed non-commercial seems to have helped V1E avoid time/resources being drained by bad knock offs. With CC-BY-NC-SA individual Makers can still make their own parts, or make for others providing not for profit.

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I think that could be a concern, but if the goal is to make large format CNC routing accessible I’d like to throw as few roadblocks up as possible. Someday there will be an ecosystem of cheap low quality machines and high end commercial machines and I think that all of those have their places.

I think that the success outcome that I’d love to see is what happened with quadcopters (what everyone calls drones now). I was part of an RC airplane photography user group when someone invented those and I actually bought one of the first 100 pcbs that he made. It was incredible to see how because the idea was open and free to copy the explosion of options. Now days you can buy a pretty decent one for $40 on amazon or a $5,000 pro one. I’d love to see the same thing happen for Maslow style CNC routers.

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Am still wondering whether non commercial in the short term would be lower risk optimal path to your desired outcome.

Being able to influence/craft mutually beneficial partnership with initial resellers could help mitigate some confusion / quality / doc / process issues for Customers, Maslow and the resellers.

200w

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@sourcery can respond in detail, but there are no plans to sell a knockoff of a Maslow4.

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And there are no plans to squat a trademark either :rofl:

Have you picked up the phone and spoken with TJ? He is a very reasonable guy who got screwed by one founder of the original company by hundreds of thousands of dollars and stolen products. I see an effort to turn things around and do what is right for Maker Made and repay him and the government loans taken out by the other founder.

It was stressful enough for us in the company to deal with the YouTube video and those accusations, seeing how much Maker Made built the Maslow CNC community for over five years and by announcing your Kickstarter to our community.

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I got a lawyer after TJ threatened to sue me for making a video explaining that Maker Made and Maslow are different companies.

My lawyer let me know that there is currently a trademark application by MakerMade claiming exclusive rights to the name Maslow CNC. Obviously it’s fraudulent, but my only options are to ignore it or to take MakerMade to court to get it thrown out. Are you offering to withdraw the application?

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Damn, I needed to get through my morning coffee…

@makermade is correct. There is no copy/intention at the moment to do a Maslow4 and it will never be a direct copy. However, since April 2019, Maker Made has been developing a wholly vertical and near-vertical CNC machine stolen by Patrick Kinnamon (former Maker Made CEO and LLC member of Maker Made) and a group of former contractors working directly for Maker Made LLC. This was a direct theft of IP and work-product owned by Maker Made, done illegally and using significant R&D and personnel resources of Maker Made. When this was discovered around April 2022, Patrick was terminated. Following that, contractors were terminated as more was discovered.

Maker Made LLC and/or makerhub LLC (the new company assuming some of Maker Made’s assets) has no claim to any Maslow CNC registered or pending trademarks, in any country. We do not have any claim to any Maslow CNC trademarks.

The only sales happening of the original Maslow CNC are selling whatever stock and inventory is left over from old inventory. Our kits come in Maker Made boxes with Maker Made instructions and supported by Maker Made (although I do know we cite the forums in our resources). Some very early kits from 2018/2019 reference some assembly instructions that I found here: Maslow Orders Open **1/2 Update Inside** SHIPPING NOW! - #72 by hxu

From my attorney’s research, we cite Maslow CNC in many instances, but none of that is considered trademark infringement. As far as the purple “M Maslow” trademark, there were three images on Amazon, put under Patrick’s watch as CEO that used a black logo of the mark. The “M Maslow” trademark that was trademarked under a separate entity dissolved a long time ago by Hannah (the 5-year defunct company recently did assign the trademark to Bar’s new company). As stated privately and publicly in this thread linked below, I had no control over those Amazon listings. We did not contest the removal of the listings or even re-list the product on Amazon. As I explained to Bar, I was working with the seller who owned that buy box on Amazon on behalf of Maker Made, as we were trying to clear inventory. I was also working with our attorney (read: NOT threatening to sue @bar or Maslow CNC):

I did, at some point, shortly after the defamatory Kickstarter video was posted, request it to be removed, or we may need to take legal action because, well, the video is defamatory and factually incorrect in many instances. As Bar keeps making defamatory remarks about MakerMade (like statements that Maker Made somehow trademarked Maslow CNC). So, I am forced to defend the company.

I state again that over the last 5 years, @EastBaySource @Metalmaslow and Maker Made have kept growing this “community” that wasn’t operating as a company for the past 5 years (Maslow CNC LLC was only incorporated in July 2023). It’s not a good thing to shit on the hand that feeds you, especially since Maker Made promoted your Kickstarter and was cheering you on.

Our China company has not produced any further stock or inventory of the original Maslow since the M2 was launched, except for a small batch that went to schools and was produced from leftover parts. We cite the Maslow CNC community project under Open Source licenses and generally as it was granted, and not much has changed since in 5 years.

I still stand by these past threads:

Bar knows how to get in touch with me and that I’m reasonable to work with, until I am crossed. If he wants to get lawyers involved, that’s also cool. It’s not my first rodeo.

And also this… Maker Made exists because of Bar and the community-supported Maslow CNC project. I wholeheartedly stand by the statement that Maker Made exists because of Bar and his product.

And furthermore, Bar’s own comments on his email lists, his website, and in forums blessed Maker Made when I was shipping the kits for Maker Made just over 5 years ago:

I am always happy to talk; I have been extremely friendly up until the defamation started happening until I had to get defensive on Kickstarter, Youtube, and this forum because we are being constantly defamed and slandered.

Thanks,
–t.j.
tj@makermade.com

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You are telling me that this application to trademark the name Maslow CNC featuring photos of your products on your website is not your application? I’m willing to be proven wrong, but it seems pretty clear to me.

98198730-1.pdf (284.6 KB)

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I can guarantee this has nothing to do with Maker Made LLC and/or Makerhub LLC. I told you privately in an email that we had 3rd party Amazon sellers liquidating the Maker Made Maslow CNC kits for us. When the listings were removed from Amazon based on your IP complaint to Amazon, I refused to help them contest the IP and trademark listings with Amazon.

This screenshot in the attachment is an Amazon product - not anything from our website. It is a Maker Made product that is drop shipped, but your logo does not appear anywhere on the product itself. Nor does the product come with a frame. It also contains an old MakerMade logo before the rebranding. The user guide/manual or USB likely has references to Maslow CNC. To my knowledge and my attorney’s research, we have never used the “M Maslow” logo on any of our websites. I cannot speak for others, but I paid the attorney enough to know that, (1) this specific Amazon listing was done under previous management and was never active or modified under my watch, (2) we did not find any references to this logo trademark on our website, and (3) we (by the way of our lawyer) informed the sellers liquidating the product that we would not contest this with Amazon despite their urging for us to do so so they could continue liquidating and keeping the product active.

I can point you to our October 25 (China time, probably 24th your time) emails. These were publically posted, as quoted above. One of my first emails stated:

The problem with Amazon is we have a 3rd party company that manages the Amazon listings for us, and we do the fulfillment. On the other hand, with the makermade.com web site I have more control over since that was acquired as part of my acquisition of Maker Made assets. I can ask our developers to take a look into and remove references if there is a trademark conflict.

You replied to the entire email, and I’m paraphrasing here:

  • You did not see a need for me to have an attorney involved, when I respectfully said this was not my expertise and needed to defer to professional counsel.
  • You accused me of blackmailing you. …by me suggesting the inventory is available for purchase if you wanted it because I was not going to make any more Maslow CNC kits given your Kickstarter campaign and the success it brought to your new product.
  • You asked me to contact the Amazon partner (third party), which I did, to inform them you had a problem. I did NOT know at the time of writing the email your trademark was the “M Maslow” logo mark that the Amazon image was allegedly infringing on (my attorney found this at some point shortly after you posted your video).
  • You want MakerMade to cease using a name that you say is causing confusion. Whereas I am stuck on a pile of inventory, that you apparently gave the old CEO of MakerMade permission to use, for a name that is not trademarked. Your logo is not anywhere on our website. We must cite our sources under any open source license agreement your project was published under. And further, those who bought our Maslow CNC kits eventually came to your community.

I replied with (excerpts):

  • I do not want to be breaking any laws, nor do I want the transferred assets to have been misrepresented to me.
  • The Amazon supplier does not work for Sourcery or Maker Made. They have a license to use the Maker Made name, images, trademarks, etc - for Amazon sales only. We do drop shipping only when an order comes in. I have made them aware of your request.
  • When I got involved as their supplier, it was 100% presented to me as a Maslow CNC project. My early references are all to Maslow CNC, including the first production run.
  • Your request is certainly not unreasonable by any means.
  • But when you start threatening that I am blackmailing you into something, this goes beyond my comfort level, and I do wish to have our attorney review (even more so now that you mention blackmail).

I asked you for your trademark numbers and some other information in two follow-up emails. You twice did not reply. Then, a week later, you posted a really nasty video about Maker Made and its alleged history and continued to defame and disparage Maker Made. Even through your own forums.

Feel free to take it offline if you need anything further.

–t.j.

So you are or are not going to do anything about the people trying to steal the name Maslow CNC?

I believe you that it’s not you you specifically who filed the paperwork, but surely you take some responsibility? Are you willing to ask your business partner to drop their attempt to trademark the name Maslow CNC?

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